Re: Fwd: [jlnlabs] TESLA COIL REVISED6

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: Harvey Norris <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com> 


--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
 > Original poster: Bart Anderson
 > <classi6-at-classictesla-dot-com>
 > Your coil would have a DCR of 30 ohms and reactance
 > of 34182 at resonance
 > (roughly 125 kHz unloaded).
 > The Q of XL/R you describe is textbook and would be
 > 1139. This would be
 > true if there weren't other losses involved (lots of
 > losses). The equation
 > does not account for losses (it is the "ideal"
 > case). If you measure Q at
 > resonance, you would measure a much lower number,
 > probably between 100 and
 > 300. However, when the sparks start, Q plummits like
 > rock in a shallow creek.
Thanx for mentioning the limitations of Q factor. I
see this stuff all the time working with source
resonant frequency circuits -at- 480 hz via alternator
source. The most dramatic example of these limitations
is encountered when resonating a huge induction
coil,(80 lbs) of some 60 henries, comprised of 20,000
winds (mutiturn, not solenoidal) of 23 gauge wire.
These coils have the limitation of having a fairly
high internal capacity brought upon by interturn, or
interlayer capacitance. At 60 hz, only 75% of the
possible resonance, (thus acting Q factor) is
achieved. At 480 hz only 5% of the possible resonant Q
factor shows itself! I mention this "off TC topic"
fact because here you are suggesting that it might be
possible to incease the acting Q factor where you have
stated;
"Also for what its worth (maybe nothing at all!) Has
anyone tried an additional resonant coil (or coils)
coupled loosly in the proximity of a running coil
which "should" add to the overall Q due to mutual
inductive coupling(i.e. multiple tuned circuits
interacting with one another)"
What was done in the case of a high induction coil to
resonate it at 480 hz, was that two stages of voltage
rise were used to act on its 1000 ohm R value. The
normal alternator  voltage output is ordinarily only
14-20 volts in normal field current application. Two
of the three phased outputs are used as Outside DELTA
Series Resonances. Each of these DSR's experience
their own internal voltage rise brought upon by series
resonance. It is here where .15 Henry made by ten 14
gauge wire spools in series, shows that again the
theoretical Q factor does not match the acting Q
factor of the resonances, but at least the performance
is vast compared to the high induction coil resonance
case using 23 gauge wire. The twenty coil system split
into two phases makes an unloaded Q factor of 45
between them, (or a reading of 45 times the input
stator voltages.) The high induction coil quantites
LsCs can be "interphased" between these outer DSR's,
and what we have essentially then done is to make a
resonant transformer, that is line coupled by the
ending connections of LsCs to the outer phased
resonances providing opposite voltage rises. NOW if
all these resonances were to obey the phasings of
their sourcings, (DSR mutual inductance considerations
quickly change that condition), then the interphasing
currents themselves should be a phase angle between
the outer ones, or a 60 degree phase difference
between outer and inner currents. Then with respect to
the currents to be made by a third DSR, instead of
those currents being 120 degrees out of phase with the
DSR's being used to provide voltage rise to the inner
resonance, since the inner resonance is acknowledged
to be a phase angle between the outer resonances
providing the voltage rise, the phase angle BETWEEN
the third outer DSR, to be designated as LpCp; and the
phase angle of the quantity LsCs will then be 180 out
of phase with respect to each other (to the remaining
outer DSR LpCp) What this then means is that we can
place the two resonances LsCs and LpCp in close
proximity and then measure any changes that mutual
inductance bring about. To try and conclude the
analogy here, what happens is that the Q factor of
LsCs is doubled from 8 to 16, when we make the
provision that the magnetic fields from each are in
opposition. Somewhat relevant to the posting here we
are comparing the effect of larger amounts of turns
using 23 gauge wire, vs smaller amounts of turns using
14 gauge wire. To do this we can actually disconnect
the three stator lines that enable  the line coupled
LsCs currents to assume themselves. What we find is
that barely any dimunition of current is then found on
LsCs; cheifly because now LsCs has become the
secondary of an air core (source frequency resonant)
transformer! In fact now many analogies of TC behavior
can be found in these components. A dramatic reduction
of the primaries q factor is found by placing it in
proximity with the secondary. In this particular case
here, the primary is also retuned for the influence of
LsCs, employing 40% more capacity for its resonance
now changed by mutual coupling with the large
induction coil. The amp-turns of LsCs can exceed the
amp-turns of LpCp.
Here using alternator source frequency resonances, an
analogy towards TC secondary operation might be made,
where if the same conclusions were evident, making a
mirror image, or bipolar if the term is used correctly
TC secondary set up should in turn increase the q
factor of each coil according to their mutual
inductance. This should apply when the base polarities
of the coils produce magnetic fields in opposition. I
have become quite confused here, since normally two
base to base bipolar secondary coils would be
producing magnetic fields in unison?  The KEY here
however is Lenz law. For the alternator resonance case
here; When LpCp and LsCs all have line connections to
the three phase stator inputs, we are given a CHOICE
as to how we wish to react the fields together. We can
arrange them for unity or opposition. The NORMAL
choice is to arrange them for unity, since then by
mutual inductance, each coil should see a higher
inductance, and thus a higher q factor. When this was
tested, yes LsCs has its q factor increased, but only
to a small degree. Its q factor is much greater for
the case of magnetic opposition however. And when we
disconnect LsCs from its original stator connections
we find then that Lenz law only allows one of these
possibilities to take place, the possibilty that the
induced currents will produce magnetic fields in
opposition to their time varying source.

So... somewhat having lost my train of thought here
can anyone forcast what will happen when

A) We construct a tesla secondary in the bipolar
manner where the secondary is horizonal and the
Primary is spiralled outwards from the middle
reference point of the coils wire length. In these
conditions a node is forced into the midpoint of the
coil, and we then instead base the R(f) of the
secondary as an aproximation made by the half
wavelength, instead of a quarter wavelength
calculation which is the approximation made for the
primary being at the base of the secondary.

B) We instead cut the coil in half and then place a
conventional designed quarter wavelength primary
instead between the coils.

Since a half wave calculation for twice the wire
yeilds the same results as a quarter for half the
wire, both methods produce the same value for R(F)

My thinking is that the above examples are magnetic
fields in unity and not opposition. The opposition
cases are not normally explored because it is
"illogical." But what I am suggesting here is that two
identically operating TC's polarity wise might have
the net effect of increasing each secondaries q
factor. That would be a design that is not ordinarily
explored, because the bipolar terminals would not arc
to each other.

Concerning these effects discovered with alternator
resonances, the most peculiar of these were made by
closing the loop of the three formerly disconnected
stator endings of the LsCs inerphasing, while the
whole process has only one power input to LpCp. Doing
this causes the former outer DSR's to be driven
backwards by the voltage source of LsCs endings, which
in turn are caused by the air core influence of LpCp.
But the "new" R(int) value made by that high induction
coil has an enhanced q factor also as a source of emf,
and the outer DSR's being driven backwards as a tank
circuit exhibits a q of 18, but the same circuit
driven by the alternator itself only makes a tank q of
8! Under these special circumstances we can also
change LpCp from a series resonance to a tank parallel
one, thus making a sort of power factor correction for
these air core relationships. In that situation, even
though the ending coils of the circuit are ten times
more resistance then that of the primary coil, both
the input current to primary  and the 10 fold
resistive load currents are found to be identical.
Even more remarkable is that the intermediary making
the voltage transformations rise by  resonant
induction itself itself has a very high resistance of
1000 ohms, but these shortcomiongs seem enhanced by
the coils superior amp turns exchange with the
primary.

Sincerely HDN