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Re: The 1500t secondary myth (long)



Original poster: "Barton B. Anderson" <tesla111@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Ditto on Dr. R's thoughts.

It's been a while, but JavaTC also calcs impedance as a function of sqrt (Lee/Cee).

The Equivalent Energy Inductance (Lee) is a lumped inductance representing the total energy stored the magnetic field. Lee is usually slightly lower than Les and the difference increases with the H/D ratio.

The Equivalent Energy Capacitance (Cee) is a lumped capacitance to represent the equivalent capacitance required to store all the energy in the resonator at the instant in the cycle when all the energy is momentarily stored in the capacitance.

JavaTC may be a useful tool for taking a look at this area.

Take care,
Bart



Tesla list wrote:

Original poster: "Dr. Resonance" <resonance@xxxxxxxxxx>


Very interesting information. I never thought much about the impedance factor. Now, I'll have to go back and do some math work to see if I can optimize my designs even more.

I usually keep adding capacitance until I can tune large coils at 4-8
primary turns.

The lower freq coils definitely seem to have long sparks (plasma formation)
probably due to pumping more total energy into the sec with it's large
toroid.

Dr. Resonance

>
> If everything else is the same, the lower frequencies also tend to need a
> higher inductance primary coil which tends to lower primary currents which
> reduces primary losses significantly.  Higher inductance primary systems
> tend to have lower losses in the coil, wire, gap, etc.
>
>
> >By this line of argument I wouldn't expect massive differences between
> >higher and lower frequency coils. And indeed in practice this seems to be
> >the case. There does seem to be a sweet spot around the 1000-1500 turn
range
> >but it's nothing drastic.
>
> DR R. also tends to make very nice coils with low loss primary
> systems.  His results may not be completely true for those of use whose
> coils are not as well built.  But the 1200 - 1500 turn idea seems to be a
> nice area to work in.  You can't really go too wrong with it.
>
>
>
> >The new theory that I have been working on (with a lot of input from
Terry,
> >Malcolm Watts, and others) suggests that the sweet spot is not any
> >particular number of turns, or even any particular inductance. Rather,
it's
> >when the resonator has a characteristic impedance (Zo) of around 36,000
> >ohms. Zo is a function of both secondary inductance and secondary/toroid
> >capacitance:
> >
> >Zo=sqrt(L/C) or Zo=2*pi*f*L or Zo=1/(2*pi*f*C) where f is your coil's
> >resonant frequency
> >
> >To check my theory, I have calculated Zo for various coils with good
> >performance documented on the net, and they all come out around 40 to
50k.
> >See my earlier posts for details. John Freau's TT-42, which is still one
of
> >the most efficient coils ever, has Zo=44k. John found that adding a
bigger
> >toroid to his TT-42 (which would lower the Zo towards 36k) increased the
> >spark length.
> >And, Richie Burnett found that a coil with Zo=22k performed poorly, but
> >changing to a resonator with Zo=~50k gave much bigger sparks with the
same
> >bang energy.
> >
> >Hence I think there is fairly good evidence for my theory. If anyone
knows
> >of any good coils with Zo greatly different from 36k, please let us know.
>
> That Zo range does seem to be a winner!  We don't know enough about
> streamer dynamics to know "why", but secondary impedance matching should
be
> "real important" according to the known data and models.  With just simple
> static models, playing with loading and impedance has dramatic
> effects.  You say 36K is the sweet spot, I'll carve that number into my
> desk ;-))
>
>
>
> >So my recipe for an optimised coil is-
> >
> >1) Decide what length of sparks you want
>
> Using john Freau's formula, you can come up with that based on input power
> too which is usually a good starting point given what type of NST one
found ;-)
>
>
> >2) Work at around 100 bps
>
> 120 in USA  ;-)
>
>
> >3) Use Freau's efficiency equation to get the required bang energy
>
> You usually have to start with the power source one finds and then get the
> best streamers out of that.
>
>
> >4) Size the toroid so it will just break out at this bang energy
>
> I tend to like to over size them.  I have had many too small, but none
that
> were "too" big.  You can always force breakout of the toroid were too big
> and too smooth, which never seems to be a problem.
>
>
> >5) Choose the secondary height big enough to avoid flashovers and racing
> >arcs (ie more than 1 meter of height per megavolt- you can get a more
> >accurate figure from Paul Nicholson's TSSP voltage gradient plots)
>
> Yes!  Don't make it too small or too short.  You just can't "fix" that.
>
>
> >6) Now choose the secondary diameter and number of turns so that Zo is
36k.
> >If this is inconvenient (maybe it gives too high an operating frequency
for
> >your *SSTC) you can increase the inductance provided that the "Q-limited
> >streamer length" works out bigger than your target streamer length. I
think
> >I already posted how to calculate this.
>
> CW coils may have different Zo matches than tube, disruptive, etc.
>
> http://hot-streamer.com/TeslaCoils/MyCoils/CWCoil/CWImpedance.txt
>
>
> >7) Finally choose the primary and tank capacitor to match your power
supply
> >voltage/current and secondary frequency, and deliver the required bang
> >energy. The procedure for this is well known already (at least for
spark-gap
> >coils and OLTCs)
>
> One will have to match the primary cap for the LTR NST match.  But higher
> inductance primaries reduce losses if that can be worked in too.
However,
> in the case of the DRSSTC, very low loss primary systems might not be good
> as Dan found.  A little resistance there can dramatically reduce IGBT
> currents without hurting performance much.
>
>
> >PS. For what it's worth, I favour using a "fat" secondary like Dr.
Resonance
> >does. A fat secondary is better at "catching" the magnetic field from the
> >primary than a thin one, so you can achieve high coupling without getting
> >the primary dangerously close. And it makes the coil look mean. It also
has
> >a higher unloaded Q than a long skinny one, but in the light of the new
> >theory I don't think this is much of an issue (as the loaded Q of our
> >optimal coil is only 6)
>
> I also like larger diameter secondaries as long as they "look" right.  I
> note that most coils all have pretty much the same general proportions
that
> have been carved out over the years.  Making things that look "odd"
> compared to other coils is usually not good unless one knows exactly what
> they are doing.
>
> Cheers,
>
>          Terry
>
>
> >Steve C.
>
>
>