Re: where to get dielectric oil? =

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "Dr. Resonance" <resonance-at-jvlnet-dot-com> 

It's also commonly called "Haysite".  They have a web site where you can
order it direct.

Dr. Resonance

 >
 > Phenolic type "GPO3" is very tracking resistant.  It is a red to pink
 > polyester phenolic that is used in all kinds of HV electrical
 > stuff.  McMaster sells it somewhere but I can't find it at the
 > moment...  Polypropylene will burn up bad, but it is very resistant to
 > failing in the first place that may indeed fix the problem ;-))  G-10 is
 > nice for low voltage stuff but GPO3 is best of HV...
 >
 > Water at the bottom of a container of transformer oil is usually
considered
 > a disaster...  Oil can hold a lot of water, thus the vacuuming of
 > refrigeration systems and all to purge out all the water...  The thing I
 > saw for a big substation transformer oil filling, heated the oil to boil
 > off water under vacuum in a continuous loop recirculating system.  Quite
an
 > operation!!  It took days...  That transformer slide 3 feet on the rail
car
 > it was delivered on (200 tons!!) and came damaged.  They "thought" they
had
 > it all fixed...  It failed within a year and destroyed the substation
 > ($15,000,000!!!)...  But the mechanical damage was to blame, not the
 > oil.  They tested transformer oils all the time for breakdown as a
periodic
 > check to be sure water was not getting in...
 >
 > If you really care, I would get that nice new Shell oil and all...  I
 > really worry about used oils or "just any" oils for things that really
 > matter...  "Water" is the worst enemy.  I seem to remember a "descant"
that
 > works inside transformer oil too....  But just "clean and dry" will fix
 > 99.9% of problems...  I would consider sloshing around alcohol, like the
 > gallon tins from the hardware store first to clean things if needed.
Then
 > heat the thing up for a day or so to drive out water.  "Any oils" may not
 > have all the "bad oils" removed that could attack transformer shellacs on
 > the wires and all too...  "Detergent" motor oils are designed to eat
though
 > shellacs which may not be a good thing in a tranny!!
 >
 > If you get oil from Shell, please tell us how it goes (cost??)...  They
 > seem very happy to sell it to anyone they can find ;-))
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 >          Terry
 >
 > At 12:31 PM 8/19/2004, you wrote:
 > >Hi Terry, all,
 > >
 > >Yes, this is Steve Flowers and I have obtained a total of three x-ray
 > >transformers from him in the past, including my latest 150 kV, 600
 > >mA "catch" just a few weeks ago for $50 ;^)) This latest transformer
 > >"catch" was the one that I was having trouble with the phenolic sup-
 > >ports for one of the HV output tabs from the transformer-to-rectifier
 > >assemblies carbon tracking to the grounded steel walls of the tank and
ended
 > >up replacing the phenolic support piece  three times before
 > >finally following Dr. R's advice and replacing the phenolic with G-10.
 > >I didn't have any more suitable scrap pieces of G-10 to replace the
 > >phenolic support on the other side (strangely enough, in all three
 > >carbon tracking incidents, it was always the same phenolic support
 > >that failed; the one on the opposite side never failed). However, I
 > >still replaced the "non-tracking" phenolic support with a piece of
 > >PE from a cheap poly cutting board. So far this has worked fine.
 > >
 > >But getting back to the oil issue, the oil that Steve has on ebay
 > >all of the time is oil that he has drained from x-ray transformers.
 > >He now lives within 100 miles from me and that's how I was
 > >able to pick up the latest transformer w/out concern for the freight
 > >arrangement and cost. Like you, though, I'm a little concerned
 > >about the purity of his oil since it's drained from old transformers
 > >and he doesn't have the proper facilities for maintaining or retaining
 > >the strengent purity levels required for dielectric oil. However, I have
 > >used  some of Steve's dielectric oil without breakdown problems but
 > >in one of the bottles I did notice a few "bubbles" of water in the
 > >bottom. I may try a local oil jobber and if the price is too high, then
 > >I'll just call on Steve ;^)
 > >
 > >David
 > >
 > >
 > >----- Original Message -----
 > >From: "Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
 > >To: <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
 > >Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:51 AM
 > >Subject: RE: where to get dielectric oil? =
 > >
 > >
 > > > Original poster: Terry Fritz <teslalist-at-twfpowerelectronics-dot-com>
 > > >
 > > > Hi,
 > > >
 > > > This Ebay guy has been selling oil for years:
 > > >
 > > >
 >
 >http://cgi.ebay-dot-com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4660&item=3833810451
 > > >
 > > > I would worry about contamination...  Transformer oil and the use it
goes
 > > > into needs to be very clean and free of water.  Big substation
 > >transformers
 > > > go through a dramatic oil drying and cleaning process (two big semis
full
 > > > of equipment)...  But if the thing is clean and you heat it say in the
 > >sun,
 > > > that should be fine.
 > > >
 > > > Transformer oil is free of light solvents and other odd oils that
might
 > > > attack insulation and such over time.  It also has a controlled
dielectric
 > > > constant with is sometimes important to the HV industry.  So it is
better
 > > > than just any oil if the application is really demanding.  Testing it
with
 > > > high voltage first is a good idea if it is really being pushed hard.
 > > >
 > > > Cheers,
 > > >
 > > >          Terry
 > > >
 > > > At 05:47 AM 8/19/2004, you wrote:
 > > > >About 4 years ago I tested several different type of oils and posted
the
 > > > >results here.   I bought some HV oil from the power company.  I
 > >discovered
 > > > >not to walk into the main office and ask to buy HV oil you will be
told
 > > > >that they do not sell it.  Go to the power company maintenance
department
 > > > >and ask to buy HV oil.  They will sell it to you for about $2.00 a
 > >gallon.
 > > > >I tested lamp oil, 10wt non detergent motor oil, kerosene, diesel
fuel,
 > >and
 > > > >several other oils.  As long as they have no additives they will all
work
 > > > >fine.   Lamp oil from Wal Mart seems to be the easiest for everyone
to
 > >find
 > > > >and it comes in quarts and gallons.   Get uncented lamp oil 100% pure
 > >oil.
 > > > >I tested the oil by placing an adjustable spark gap under the oil and
 > > > >connecting it to 15KV power supply.   Measure the gap and try
different
 > > > >oils to see which one works best.   Put a cap in parallel with your
 > > > >transformer and test it again.
 > > > >
 > > > >Gary Weaver
 > > > >gary350-at-earthlink-dot-net
 > > > >Why Wait?  Move to EarthLink.
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > > > [Original Message]
 > > > > > From: Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
 > > > > > To: <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
 > > > > > Date: 8/18/2004 10:45:09 PM
 > > > > > Subject: where to get  dielectric oil?
 > > > > >
 > > > > > Original poster: "David Rieben" <drieben-at-midsouth.rr-dot-com>
 > > > > >
 > > > > > Hi list,
 > > > > >
 > > > > > I'm sure that this has been covered before, but where can I
 > > > > > get new dielectric transformer oil (like Shell Diala?) in small
 > > > > > quantities, like 5 gallon buckets? I assume just call one of
 > > > > > the local oil manufacturers?
 > > > > >
 > > > > > David
 > > > > >
 > > > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 >
 >
 >