Re: 12 MV 100 years ago

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "by way of Terry Fritz <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>" <wysock-at-ttr-dot-com>

To Boris, Malcom, Peter, Terry, et.al.,

This is my first post to the List in perhaps more then one year.  I have tried
to follow this particular "thread" ever since its first appearance.  What I 
want
everyone to know is that the article I wrote (about 13M) which appears on my
web site, was written in 1995.  Since then, I have had only one opportunity to
set this system up and do any kind of tests/measurements (that was in
November, 1995).  13M has only been set up and made operational one
time since 1995 (which was for a Sun MicroSystems convention at Anaheim,
California in 1998).  That was a special effects job and there was no time to
make any further measurements/experiments.

Today, 13M is alive and well (albeit that it is in storage).  What I would 
like to
do is to be able to set this system up, make the improvements I mentioned in
my article on my web site, and invite anyone from this List, to have an 
opportunity
to make their own measurements/observations.  That may happen some day, I
just can't say when yet.

As anyone familiar with real estate in Southern Calif. knows, space is very 
expensive
(even rented space).  I no longer have the "luxury" of being able to set up 13M
at the AM broadcast transmitter site (as shown in the 13M pictures).  That 
station has
been sold twice since 1995 and is now owned by Disney-ABC.  I no longer have an
"in" there because of this.  Now I will have to find a new location.  Even 
working with
a very knowledgable crew and all the right assembly tools (crane, man-lift, 
etc.), it
takes the better part of a full day, just to set this system up.

One of the main difficulties in finding a good place to operate 13M is an 
appropriate
RF ground reference.  At the time (back in 1994-95), when I was operating 
(at what
was KRLA-AM), I had full access to the extensive copper ground plane which 
served
as the counter-poise for the 5-tower phased array antenna system.  It 
proved to be
ideal.  At Anaheim, I had access to a 10" copper water main that was the 
primary
fire suppression system that ran through the stadium.  This was not as good 
an RF
ground as at the AM transmitter site, but we made do with it.  The point 
here is that
the amount of RF current generated by 13M cannot be handled by a single 8 foot
ground rod driven into moist soil; its absolute ground impedance would still be
too high for such an application.

I know there are many more tests/observations that needs to be made with 13M.
I hope that this may be done some day in the future.

Best regards to all,
Bill Wysock.


Date forwarded: 	Wed, 21 May 2003 17:16:51 -0600
Date sent:      	Wed, 21 May 2003 16:45:49 -0600
From:           	"Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
To:             	tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
Subject:        	Re: 12 MV 100 years ago
Forwarded by:   	tesla-at-pupman-dot-com

 > Original poster: "boris petkovic by way of Terry Fritz 
<teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>" <petkovic7-at-yahoo-dot-com>
 >
 >
 >   > Original poster: "Malcolm Watts by way of Terry
 >   Fritz
 >   <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>" <m.j.watts-at-massey.ac.nz>
 >    >
 >    > Some sources say that Tesla reached
 >  > voltages like 12 MV
 >  >  >  >  >  using  his magnifier in Colorado Springs.
 >  >  >  >
 >  >  >  > 12 MV is comparable to natural lightning which
 >  > is between 10 and 120
 >  > MV.
 >  >  >  > This is much less than you would expect from 1
 >  > MV giving 4 feet with a
 >  > Tesla
 >  >  >  > coil due to the nature of spark propagation.
 >  >  >  > The biggest tesla coils currently at around 55
 >  > ft are about 5.5 MV.
 >  >  >  > The longest spark described at 100m (325ft)
 >  > was generated by a 5 MV
 >  >  >  > generator in Siberia.
 >  >  >  > References for these statements on my website
 >  > at
 >  >  >  >
 >  >
 > http://members.iinet-dot-net.au/~pterren/Tesla%20coils%20intro.htm
 >  >  >  > Peter (Tesla Downunder)
 >  >  >
 >  >  > I had a look at one of those references. There is
 >  > a bald statement
 >  >  > that Vout = such and such without a scrap of
 >  > theoretical
 >  >  > justification for the formula. In fact, a
 >  > consideration of output
 >  >  > voltage taking energy conservation into account
 >  > invalidates the
 >  >  > claims made above. This has been known about for
 >  > a long time. I
 >  >  > posted something about this just a week or two
 >  > ago and there must be
 >  >  > dozens of messages dating back more than 7 years
 >  > in the list archives.
 >  >  > Malcolm
 >  >
 > Macolm,Peter,
 > You 2 are talking about 13M along the line ?
 > If this turns to be the case see my standpoints.
 > Personally, I'm not interested (*) in discusions of
 > type "TC voltages vs spark lenght",but I'll make
 > exception this time.
 >
 > If 13M had been constructed as opimized 6th order
 > magnifier,it would have been able to deliver about 3.5
 > MV peaks on extra coil.This estimation is based on
 > bang energy 100 kW/120=833.3 Ws ,and ekvivalent energy
 > storage capacity of 3rd coil (+ no loss).
 > In this case all the energy orginaly stored in C1
 > would be transfered to Cee of extra coil.
 >
 > However,the system is not designed to work in this
 > manner (judging by geometry apperance,taken waveforms
 > etc) but seemingly somewhere in "half way" between
 > ideal magnifier and ordinary 2 coil systerm (closer to
 > the latter).I think the attention was payed mostly to
 > fast transfer time without special care of energy
 > distribution among elements of HV circuit.Thus the
 > estimation  in this case would be about 2,5 MV.
 > Proving that circulating amount of energy is esential
 > factor for long discharge of TC.
 >
 > There is rather weird calculation on ttr site assuming
 > some kind of energy conservation between bangs.(120
 > BPS but 39 sparks observed.So 4.2 MV estimated).I'm
 > missing point here.Where the energy should be stored
 > in?Circulating in circuits?
 > Can't be true,Q is a way too low for 120 BPS.
 > In charge cloud that hangs around toroid?
 > If this is addressed I've missed it.
 > Theoreticaly,it  could be possible to find point in
 > space around extra coil which in certain
 > moment,supported by background TC voltage posses the
 > highest potential (maybe even higher than
 > V2=V1sgrtC1/C2).So help me mr.Poisson to solve that
 > riddle.Not to mention charging ,dissipating,attracting
 > repealing and forming the cloud densities in quite an
 > esoteric way.
 > One way or another this wouldn't be a TC voltage,and
 > shouldn't be refered as such.
 >
 > I can be weird too saying that every little coil
 > operating in vacuum can "generate" 511kV with small
 > (say 0.05J) bang size but I don't want to offend
 > people dealing with pulse transformers electron beam
 > accelerators.
 >
 >
 > (*)=becouse spark lenght in repetitive shock excited
 > TC is useless factor for estimating terminal voltage.
 >
 > best regards,
 > Boris
 >
 >
 >

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