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Re: Mag amps and generators ?
Original poster: "Harvey Norris by way of Terry Fritz <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>
--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original poster: "davep by way of Terry Fritz
> <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>" <davep-at-quik-dot-com>
>
>
> >I was just thinking about totally different power
> supply
>
> >configurations for TC's ... I thought I remembered
>
> >hearing that Tesla used high frequency AC generator
>
> ..alternator...
> 8)>>
>
> >at one stage?
>
> Yep.
> Others went higher, later,
> (i've a LOVELY technical paper on one
> such).
> Up to about 100KHz was done later. I don't
> think
> Tesla got over 10 KHz. My understanding is
> that
> he went to spark gap methods because
> alternators
> could not go high enough. Also, spark gap
> systems
> can be tuned more readily than changing the
> freq
> of an alternator...
> (I'd start with:
> Experiments with currents of high
> potential
> and Frequency
> (or close to that) by Tesla for his early
> work.
>
>
> >Has anyone tried, seen or thought about building a
> high frequency
> >generator for TC's -- it would not be easy,
The limitations of an AC conversion of the ordinary
car alternators appear to be about 400 watts for short
runs, they really heat up fast though. I also have a
much larger dual bus reluctance alternator system that
hasnt been fired up for quite a while. Since I have
two different mechanical AC systems a novel idea is
planned for the future. I will try running the 480 hz
signal from the AC converted car alternator system
into the field of the 360 hz bus alternator system. I
am thiking this should get me up to about the ~2500 hz
range, and because the bus alternators are somewhat
massive and run by a 220 5 hp motor, power output
shouldnt be so much of a problem. One should also
recognize that the higher the frequency input to a TC
tank, the lower the firing voltage at the gap. I have
tried driving a primitive TC from alternator means,
but because of the small size and losses at the
primary, and possible mistunings on the capacity size,
no appreciable results have yet been attained.
One of the concievable advantages is that with
higher frequency inputs, we can also create voltage
rise by source frequency resonance,using large
cumbersome inductances; (not a very common approach,
since higher input freq is not a common approach to
begin with) Since we have more then one phase to play
with, this also provides for some amusing experiments.
Yahoo mail holders might be able to access the
following jpeg;
3 phase triggered arc gap
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00269.jpg
This was accomplished using a pole pig for one phase,
and using source frequency resonant voltage rise as a
middle electrode to trigger the gap. That voltage
timing is predicted to be 180 out of phase with the
pole pig's voltage because of a phase shift that
occurs by resonant interphasing. Suppose we designate
a single phase for the pole pig, this leaves two
unused phases where an opposite voltage rise can be
obtained. One the initial phases themselves, a large
low resistance induction coil system is used to
provide a preliminary voltage rise. A breif discourse
on source frequency resoanace follows;
Let me show the difference between open and
closed configuations for the alternator resonances at
480 hz, using ten of these 14 gauge coils for each
side made as inversely phased dual series resonances.
At open circuit the outside components act to deliver
a bipolar resonant rise of voltage;
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/IRC/Dsc00402.jpg
shows a 14.4 volt stator creating 703 volts with a ~
1.5 A draw at 480 hz, by using inversely phased series
resonances as the source of resonant voltage rise. Now
we can short that voltage rise to see the difference.
Then it becomes a figure 8 tank circuit with resonant
rise of amperage vs that being inputed;
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/IRC/Dsc00403.jpg
shows a 15.35 volt stator only inputing some 1.83 ma,
but becoming some 34 ma across the midpoint path. That
pathway contains ~ double the ~ 16 and 17 ma found on
the sides of the circuit. Similar to the DC full wave
rectifier, we find double the current through the
midpoint (rectified) pathway then we would find on the
individial diodes themselves. So here we can say the a
15.35 volt stator can enable a current limited supply
of 34 ma across the midpoint pathway, but it is also a
voltage source that will rise in accordance to what
load is placed across it, and it will rise as far as
some 700 volts if the load itself became infinite
resistance at this voltage input of application by the
alternator. Thus the whole assembly can act as a sort
of resonant transformer. The advantage of this concept
is that we can produce voltage rise without a
transformer, as with the rise of frequency
applications, ferromagnetic transformers start
becoming inneffective at higher frequencies, thus we
still have a mechanism for transforming voltages
upwards by instead using a bipolar voltage rise
created by resonance, instead of the more familiar
concept of creating a voltage rise by the turns ratio
of a ferromagnetic transformer.
Now what can be done in the above scenario is to
add an extra source frequency resonance BETWEEN the
~700 volt potentials genarated by two of the outer
delta series resonances, making it essentially a
double set of voltage rises. Since the outer Delta
series resonances are normally considered zero and 120
degrees: the resonant interphasing will shift the
phase angle to that of one between them, or a phase
angle at 60 degrees. The middle point of the
interphased LC resonance at 60 degrees gives a voltage
rise sent to the middle electrode of the triggered
gap. This phase angle then is 180 out of phase with
the third remaining 240 degree phase being sent to the
pole pig for voltage rise by conventional transformer,
thus the 180 phased voltage created by interphased
source frequency resonant voltage rise can be used as
a middle "triggering" electrode for a three electrode
firing gap on the tank. This might all sound good on
paper, but I quickly quit this approach, as I was
getting bad kickbacks up the system on the resonant
side, as I think the voltage of the middle electrode
was higher then that made by the pole pig. In any case
the coil on this try did not perform to expectations.
I now have a much larger primary to try this
approach again later.
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00266.jpg
shows the very small black 10 gauge wire primary used
in that attempt. A neon lit by resonant voltage rise
of a high induction coil interphasing was used to the
interior volume, so that the secondary could be scoped
for resonant frequency. This prooved agreeable to
mathematical predictions by formula.
TC Secondary scoping by neon polar capacity/ air core
transfomer method/ 0.5 volts/div; 5 us/div
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00263.jpg
The source frequency air core transformer became a
later developement according to this same scheme of
combining all three phases into unity of one action.
It was noted that if the 240 degree designated phase,
formerly routed to pole pig, was instead used to
resonate a single 14 gauge 500 ft coil: the coil could
be used as a primary for a source frequency air core
transformer: inasmuch as when the connections to the
other phases were removed, so the secondary then had
no actual line connections to the alternator, it still
produced equivalent currents and voltages!
DSR1 (primary)-at- 4.4 stator volts/ neon across C2, coil
~ 7 inches above conical induction coil pole
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/RI/Dsc00249.jpg
An even more remarkable thing occurs when we instead
drive the primary by a parallel resonance, instead of
a series one. By bringing the former endings of the
outer alternator delta series resonances into a closed
loop, the same currents that are inputed into a
primary
can be found on the 20 coils behind the secondary! A
recent modification of this idea using two primaries
and two high induction coils as secondary produces a
situation where the 20 coil system has amperage that
EXCEEDS the primary input! A diagram as to how two
primaries were used as a figure 8 tank is shown at
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/BRS/BRT.jpg
More conceptial drawings of 3 phase ideas;
3 phase DELTA TO WYE RESONANCES
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/IRC/3DWR.jpg
Air core Series/ Parallel RESONANT SECONDARIES
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/IRC/ACSP.jpg
One should expand the pics for clarity, as the smaller
size omits some accompanying captions.
So... as we can see resonance in itself by mechanical
generators has a lot more fascinating things of
possibility than just the mere ordinary building of a
tesla coil, and frequently the possibilities of source
frequency resonance at higher than 60 hz inputs are
not recognized for the possibilities they may hold.
Sincerely HDN
=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/
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