# Re: 3 Phase power supply...

```Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>

--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original poster: "Albert Gruzs by way of Terry Fritz
> <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <Gruzs-at-activatormail-dot-com>
>
> Hi All,
> Has anyone ever attempted to run a TC with a 3 phase
> power supply?
Yes, I have done some research using three phase
stator WYE output of an alternator, BUT this is made
at 480 hz. Because the typical car alternator has 7
pole faces per rotation, at an average sensible speed
you are already 8 times the 60 hz frequency. What this
also means is that if you simply hook up a 30 ma NST
to a single phase of the alternator inputs, its former
current limtations will now be 8 times as high, thus
initially the transformer being used should NOT be
current limited, so I was able to produce alternator
/10kva primary arc gaps but not with an NST, even
though its voltage rise was twice that of the pole
pig. Thus then you have to figure a method to ballast
the pole pig, (if even at all necessary!)

Now I am pursuing an entirely different scheme to run
a TC, by actual source frequency resonance alone to
produce voltage rise! The pole pig transformer
undoubtably is still a possible candidate for
alternator TC work, but for now I am trying this by
air core induction coils alone, where it takes a while
to explain how all three phases are incorporated for
one voltage rise, at very improved efficiency to the
transformer case; but here I can start by showing the
operation at 15 volts from a 3 phase alternator. The
1.05 nf cap by reactance laws will have 1000 volts
across is plates when 3.16 ma conduction occurs, and
in this  jpeg a 20.3 ma conduction would be ~6400
volts, about a 426 voltage rise from a 15 volt stator:
also made with the limitation of a one ended neon
attached to the voltage rise.(The voltage rise would
be higher if this one ended neon were not in place)
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/RI/Dsc00178.jpg

The way all three phases are used is that two of the
stator outputs are placed across 12 ohm resonances to
procure a voltage rise on each of those resonances,
based on the q made by .15 henry coils -at- 480 hz. At
the middle point of each of those Delta Series
Resonance, (DSR's) we add a high induction coil and
plate capacity needed for its source frequency
resonance, which makes a further q fold voltage rise
inside that circuit., as what we call a interphased
resonance. The needed C plate capacity value will also
be the C to be used in the tesla primary, where then
its value is not negotiable in the TC tuning, so the L
of the primary must be varied to meet the TC
secondaries resonance. Now typically from three phase
laws, we should think that  the voltage across the
interphasing resonance will be 1.7 that of each side
alone, so here a 15 volt stator enables 364.4 volts
across the resonant interphasing. That explains how
two of the three phases are used. Now the high
induction coil also has a real acting q of 8, so
ordinarily by the two phase application method the
last voltage rise will be 8 times that inputed, here
approximated as 2900 volts for that input. Two
accomplish this side of the three phase: uses twenty
14 gauge coils for the two DSR's which is quite an
expense, along with the high induction coil! But so is
a pole pig expensive, that will NOT even deliver easy
results at 480 hz!

Now where the 3rd phase comes in is by using only a
single 14 gauge coil, tuned for producing magnetic
opposition to the high induction coil, by placing both
of these in mutual interaction in space. That DSR1
coil will actually cause the 8 fold Q of the high
induction coil to rise to ~6400/365 = 17.5 times the
voltage being inputed by the two phase interphasing
resonance. If we remove this DSR1 coil from the pole
while in operation, the voltage across the high
induction coil resonance will go up, but the resultant
internal voltage rise will go down back towards the
normal Q of 8,(the limitation of interwinding capacity
of these 9 mile 23 gauge coils at 480 hz)) with the
net results that the magnetic opposition method
actually produces the best voltage gain.  So here we
can estimate 1 amp consumptions for the 12 ohm
resonances at 15 volt input, and see that the DSR1 (1
0hm resonance that does not come to full conduction by
internal stator resistance limitations), where the
reactive power input is ~ at (2+ 2.75) Amps* 15 volts
= 71.25 VAR

Now let us compare what a ferromagnetic transformer
will have to input to achieve this same conduction of
20.3 ma across a 1 nf cap, where the ratio 6400/15=
426, thus it would take 8.6 amps at 15 volts -at-480 hz
using that transformer ratio to accomplish the same
output. About 80 better efficiency in this example,
without even noting the drastic transformer drops of
efficiency at 480 hz! But things do not stop there at
all.

This is because we have not even started to compare
the 60/480 frequency differences themselves. To cause
this same 20 ma conduction of a meager 1 nf cap would
need some 51,000 volts at 60 hz! Thus while a TC
primary design using only 1 nf sounds vary small, one
must also realize that it can make the same energy
transfer as a 8 nf cap at 60 hz. Thus TC designs using
smaller capacities, and inhererent higher frequencies
of operation,(smaller coils) become more feasible with
these higher frequency inputs.

However I dont have those things available at the
moment, so I am using a unconventional TC secondary
and will add primary winds as tuning  this coil
commences. The secondary also uses 14 gauge wire,
being 272 turns on 20 inch diameter sonotube, being
h/d only 1.5, and also having only 4 ohms and 20.5 mh.

This secondary has 1500 ft of wire, but because of the
low h/d ratio, and inefficient wire gauge I have no
idea of what its resonant frequency will be. The
vaying inductance tries of primary will be in parallel
to the plate cap charging by 3 Phase resonance, with
an arc gap in the loop. I have figured for 300,000 hz
I would need .28 mh in the primary, and for 200,000
hz, I will need .63 mh in the primary. The
quaterwavelength freq for 1500 ft is about 160,000 hz.
Anyone got ideas of which frequency to try for
starters? HDN
> I'm not sure, but this would probably require 3
> separate tank+primary circuits
> (kept in proper phase alignment, of course).
That is something that can be tried later, where the
consideration of three tanks sharing the same arc gap
seems feasible also, but this is totally different
from what I am doing here, to use all three phases to
produce a single phase of voltage rise.
> If throwing 3x the wattage onto the input(s) didn't
> boost output; I don't know
> what would.
>
> Have a good day,  Albert.
>
>
>

=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/

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