Re: Cyclotron effect

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "Sundog by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <sundog-at-timeship-dot-net>

Allrigty, grab a cup 'o joe, comments interspaced :)



At 05:04 PM 3/12/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Original poster: "Paul Nicholson by way of Terry Fritz 
><twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <paul-at-abelian.demon.co.uk>
>
>If a beam of charged particles was launched upwards from the center
>of the toroid, they would continue straight up, unaffected by
>the B field (since beam v x B is zero).
>
>But at any angle from the vertical they would form themselves into
>a spiral (ish) path since v x B is now generally non-zero. If they
>emerged horizontally from the toroid, they would curve either
>upwards or downwards depending on the sign of their charge and the
>B field polarity (assuming here that E is roughly radial from the
>topload).
>
The vast majority of sparks from my VTTC travel in a nearly straight line 
from the breakout.  With a tiny round ball for a breakout, they wander a 
bit, but still extend in a nearly straight line for some distance before 
branching.  There is almost no curve to the arcs at all.  In a horizontal 
position they radiate seemingly straight (given that the breakout is a 
sharp single point pointed straight out.)
Also, when branching does occur, it's random and hard to predict.  Look at 
the Quicktime video on my site
http://sundog.timeship-dot-net/HV/cw_prjct/P2110124.MOV
to see the streamers.  They're a bit chaotic, but pretty much straight. 
Nearly all the branching is at the top, a fair distance from the 
toroid.  How powerful would the field have to be to affect the direction of 
the streamers?

>Could this cyclotron mechanism also affect the path over which a
>streamer forms?  Do the electrons in the leaders see a sufficient
>v x B force to make a noticeable difference to their path?
>
>Can this account for the observed spiral discharges?
>
>Assuming electrons are the sole candidates for being affected (due
>to their lightness and relative mobility compared to the ionised
>atoms) we should see the spirals form in opposite directions on
>alternate half cycles, due to reversal of B.
>
>Do the observed spirals appear to rotate both ways?
I don't know.  I'll have to pull the quad 833 out of the corner and find out.


>For an order of magnitude we can easily put forward a value for B,
>but does anyone have a guess for v?
>
>If the spiral streamers tend to be entirely or mostly in one
>direction does that direction reverse if you replace the secondary
>with an identical one wound in the opposite direction?
 From memory (i may be wrong), I seem to remember the streamers having a 
counter-clockwise spiral from the bottom to the top. All my secondaries are 
wound the same direction (i use a winding machine for them), so I don't know.


>If the toroid is connected to another smaller toroid, displaced some
>way to the side of the coil, such that the streamers relocate to it,
>do they retain the spiral effect?
Most definately. I believe the spiral effect is due to air currents and the 
sharply pinched E field by the breakout point.  Looking at the photos on my 
site, you can plainly see the spirals are very pronounced at the base of 
the streamer, and taper with the streamer down to nothing.  If you draw an 
arc with a grounded rod, the spirals dissapear, and the arc off the Quad833 
looks like a MOT arc, smooth and wavy.

>A couple of experiments there to add to the ever expanding list.
>
>Is it worth computing the trajectory of a charged particle leaving
>the toroid?  We know E and B for the region, but what about v?
>
>And has anyone used one of those little NIB magnets as a breakout
>point?  Wrapped in foil perhaps?
I've done that.  I set a stack of 12 1/8" thick by 1/2" diameter NIB 
magnets on the toroid (they'll hold up several hundred pounds easily), and 
there was no discernable change in the streamer's 
behavior.  *WARNING!*  These things burn like the dickens of you catch them 
on fire!!!  Also, the high temperature of the streamer in the Quad833 coil 
ruined the uppermost magnet! (aside from it burning).


The thought of trying to measure the rise and collapse of the alternating 
magnetic field around the toroid is a tough one. The VTTC dumps most of 
it's energy into the sparks anyway, so I'd wonder how much of it really is 
used to establish a magnetic field around the topload.


>--
>Paul Nicholson
>--

Just my $.01 :)
Shad Henderson
G2-1203