Re: TC Secondary Currents - was ( Experimental Help - Terry?)

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Original poster: "Malcolm Watts by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <m.j.watts-at-massey.ac.nz>

Hi Richard, Paul,
                 FWIW, I should point out that one can optimise an 
aerial for picking up either E or B fields. In the first case, a flat 
plate is the obvious candidate, and in the second, a closed loop such 
as a folded dipole or "loop" aerial. There is a marked difference in 
their responses to e.s. generated discharges. Perhaps this will also 
be regarded as unconvincing. Just stating my position: I do not fall 
into the camp of a "true believer" in anything. Hopefully my position 
is that of one who weighs the evidence and forms a judgement based on 
reason until further evidence refutes whatever judgement I have 
accepted. I admit to liking Popper's ideas on the scientific method. 
Perhaps there is a definitive experiment one can perform to refute 
Maxwell's ideas? Let's hear about it.

Regards,
Malcolm

On 4 Mar 2002, at 20:50, Tesla list wrote:

> Original poster: "Wall Richard Wayne by way of Terry Fritz
<twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <rwall-at-ix-dot-netcom-dot-com>
> 
>  
> Paul N. wrote:
>  
>  
> There's nothing mythical about displacement current, and it's
> trivially easy to prove that it has its own magnetic field.
> Simply turn on a radio.  If it receives a distant signal, then you
> have proved the case: radio waves require Maxwell's displacement
> current [*].
>  
> Your radio example proves nothing in regard to displacement current.  The
> same case can also be stated for longitudinal wave radio reception.  BTW,
> did Maxwell proclaim radio waves to be displacement current?  Actually,
> what you just described is nothing more than the flat plate experiment
> already proposed, ie., two parallel capacitor plates with an air dielectric
> between driven by AC current.  There is an electric wave in the dielectric
> (air) between the two plates.  Think about it.  
>  
> There is always confusion between conduction of current in a conductor
> (wire) versus an electrical wave in a dielectric.  I think you'll agree
> that air or even the vacuum of space functions as a dielectric.  In a
> conductor current magnetic field circles around the wire conductor.  A
> simple compass can detect the circular magnetic field around a wire in DC
> or slowly varying AC.  Now I'm sure you're rather fond of Maxwell's nice
> orthogonal E and B fields moving along in a sinus transverse rhythm in a
> wave in space.  It takes little imagination to see the magnetic fields have
> completely different orientations in conductor currents vs electric waves
> in space.  B field orientation is completely different in each.  So, to be
> precise always make the distinction between the two as it make a huge
> difference.  No one has ever captured or detected those pretty orthogonal E
> and B fields in a wave in free space or dielectric.  T! he have never been
> proven to exist as Maxwell proposed.   They're just his diagrams to try and
> explain his theory and have no physical basis in reality.   So, the real
> question in this debate involves conduction of electricity in a conductor
> vs a dielectric.
>  
> BTW, which way does Maxwell indicate "displacement current" moves in
> relation to the conduction current in the same circuit?
>  
>  
> [*] My personal hero Maxwell.  A mathematician, he had a hard time
> convincing folk that his proposed displacement current was a
> feature of reality.  But the math involved was just too simple and
> beautiful for nature to have missed the opportunity.  It was with
> this discovery that the first cracks began to appear in the naive and
> constrictive notion of an absolute space and time. IMO modern physics
> began with Maxwell's displacement current - it was the time that
> physics first started getting weird, and it's carried on getting a
> lot weirder in the intervening 130 years! 
> --
> Paul Nicholson
> --
>  
> Well, Paul, this was a big mistake on Maxwell's part.  In essence he had a
> "simple" and "beautiful" mathematical theory, but it didn't work.  Nature
> would not cooperate.  So, he designed the most grand mythical fix ever to
> make his equations work - -  "displacement current".  Only one big problem,
> Nature still rejected it and it still doesn't work.  Never any undisputable
> experimental evidence of this  perpetuated fantasy.  Science doesn't work
> this way.  Nature's secrets are discovered by undeniable experimental
> results THEN theory and mathematics may be applied to match reality.
> Maxwell had it backward.
>  
> In my opinion "displacement current" is the crack in Maxwell's EM dam.
> It's been patched and plastered over for years.  It's taught as gospel to
> EE students.  There is no room for independent thought in their heads.
> Unfortunately, it does not coincide with Nature and has never been
> undeniably found to exist.  As such, it is the weakest part of the dam and
> as it crumbles the dam will sooner or later give way taking along with it
> all of Maxwell's true believers.
>  
> RWW
>  
> 
>  
> --- Richard Wayne Wall
> --- rwall-at-ix-dot-netcom-dot-com
>  
>  
> 
> 
>