Re: Stop the nonsense

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "Terry Fritz" <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>

Hi Paul,

"Longitudinal waves" do really exits in microwave devices and pipe organs
as well as many other situations.  The definition does get "twisted" a bit
when it comes to Tesla coiling.  I think folks associate Tesla's original
Earth resonance idea with being based on longitudinal waves.  That sort of
stretches the definition, but I see what they mean.  There is no stretch of
new physics involved with the basic concept.  Some of the atomic level
stuff did sound "strange" to me but I am no genius in that area.

Admittedly, one is going to have a heck of a time making longitudinal waves
with a wavelength of a mile with a device a few feet across.  But a flat
secondary machine is the right idea at least in the very near field.  Flat
secondaries were studied extensively by Tesla but modern data or
experiments with them is practically none existent.  "I" find modern day
tests with them interesting.  I still want to know how one winds those darn
things :-)  Flat Tesla coils easily meet all the standards of being a Tesla
coil.

One vital test I use is to determine if an idea is "talk" or "action".
People can "talk" about all kinds of goofy things that we can never
resolve...  However, if they are actually doing experiments or tests with
real hardware, they have gone to a far higher level.  We may argue with
their specific intentions, knowledge, results, data, etc. but they key is,
if you can do it better, then go do it.  Their results are there in plain
sight for all to see.  I have never seen a device and a scope signal that I
did not feel I could reproduce myself.  I may not agree with the
"interpretation" but the data is there.

A classic example for use is long range energy transmission like Tesla
envisioned.  People can talk about how well it should work and give all
kings of great ideas about how to make it work.  We have had some long
discussions on this.  However, there have been a few folks that have
actually gone out and tried it.  The discussions of how well the "real"
tests work are pretty short :-))  Talk is cheap, but someone with a flat
secondary reporting on their results is "cool".  Maybe we don't have a
bunch of equations, "science" or scope pictures behind their tests, but
they probably know a whole lot more about it than "we" do...  They see
their results their way but they also share their results so the rest of us
can judge for ourselves.  The key is that there IS something to judge other
than pie in the sky talk.

I remember a few folks (and they know who they are :o)) who thought MMCs
could not run RF at the DC rating, determining Fo of a secondary and toroid
to with a few percent by computer analysis, and even studying the voltage
profiles along a secondary were "impossible".  Determining secondary
voltages, real time secondary impedance measurement, and accurately
modeling Tesla coils with a computer all had their strong critics who were
happy to tell why it could not be done.  I listened really hard to all of
them :-))  Fortunately, time told the truth.  Ideas that were right
survived and flourished, ideas that were wrong were forgotten in an instant
(I still have not quite gotten over the "Malcolm's ruler" thing.  I was SO
sure... :o))

I cannot "judge" the "truth" of posts.  That is everyone elses problem :-)
I only determine if posts are about Tesla coils, if they are of "practical
value", and if they do have some level of "sanity".  Determining if a post
is about Tesla coils vs. tuning the carburetor on a 57 Chevy is pretty
easy.  Sometimes supporting threads like plating get a ways off but their
goal is still to help make Tesla coils.  "Practical value" also strays
sometimes and is harder.  Anyone who actually "HAS the hardware" passes
this.  The flat secondary experiments are done on real machines than can
and do exist.  The study of these real devices is obviously on topic.
Sanity gets more into people that just can't get along with others and the
more basic problems mailing lists have.  In the last year or so, this is
hardly a problem and moderation has loosened up to give more "freedom" as a
result.

The longitudinal thread is about a person trying experiments with a flat
secondary Tesla coil.  He has the coil and is really doing it.  He is very
tolerant of those that disagree with his ideas and he invites them to help
him.  His idea about longitudinal waves may be right or wrong but maybe his
work will convince us all of the same answer in the end regardless of what
it is.

Some threads do attract of few off-topic posts now and then but we are all
good at staying in control.  Occasionally, a thread flies off and I stop it
when it seems unable to stop itself.  

So the present thread will continue.  Sorry bout that ;-)  It may go bad on
us at any time (like right after I post this :-)) but right now it seems on
topic.  Thank's for expressing your feelings.  It's times like this that I
take a hard look at things to see if I am doing what I think I should be
doing.  Sometimes I am not...

Cheers,

	Terry






At 06:54 AM 2/12/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Please can the moderator put a stop to all this nonsense about
>longitudinal waves and the like.  It's *way* off topic - it has
>nothing to do with reality, let alone Tesla coiling.
>
>Lets ask for firmer moderation, and try to resist engaging in
>dialogue with the cranks and True Believers, it only encourages
>them!
>
>How about requiring that, if a posting demands a fundamental 
>change to any established physics, then the principles should
>first be established in a suitable peer reviewed journal.
>
>There are plenty of forums for those with no respect for science,
>so lets not have to put up with this rubbish on here.
>
>--
>Paul Nicholson
>--
>