Re: Solid-state gas tube power supplies for TC use

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>


--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
 > Original poster: "Scott Hanson by way of Terry Fritz
 > <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <huil888-at-surfside-dot-net>
 > I have not been "successful" in getting satisfactory
 > output from any of
 > these solid-state supplies, whether they were the
 > common AC powered "beer
 > sign" units, or the automotive units with 12 VDC
 > input. Like Nick Field
 > noted, all that I have seen use a low rep-rate
 > ignition pulse superimposed
 > on a relatively low voltage that keeps the neon tube
 > ionized after ignition.
 > You certainly can rectify the output, and charge a
 > small cap with it, but I
 > couldn't honestly say the results were worth the
 > effort
I became excited about creating source frequency
resonant circuits using these transformers. I have
done this with a large collection of 14 gauge coils
using 3 phase alternator AC inputs at 480 hz. Heres a
jpeg of 14 volts stator source being turned into 734
volts between two of the phases.
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/IRC/Dsc00316.jpg

My reasoning was that if the same thing could be done
at 20 khz, the Q of the coils would go sky high!

However when I began experimentation with these solid
state "no go's" I found that for 60 hz variac
operation, the transformers would not operate with
just discrete L and C quantites as secondary loads,
and they just sat there making clicking noises, and a
monitoring of the primary amperage showed that after a
certain voltage past 130 volts, the primary amperage
starting going way down to about 20 to 30 ma. So then
it became necessary to put a gas bulb in the circuit,
just to get them to operate!

To coordinate the bulb AND L and C quantities on the
secondary circuit, I used two inversely phased
resonances, with the bulb across the midpoint path as
shown in
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/MARX/DSC00079.JPG

But first I wanted to verify the frequency output,
since a source frequency resonance must be tuned to
the frequency. I found that a small 4 inch neon would
have only about 200 volts across it from this
transformer, so it could be scoped out for frequency.
I also then began using the voltage rise from the
alternator process to power the solid state device, as
the alternator voltage rise actually gave an advantage
in operation, as then it could also function without a
bulb in the circuit, and the transformer then didnt
make any clicking noises, but at 60 hz these problems
persisted, so I switched to the alternator supply. The
input frequency on the primary has no effect on the
frequency of the output, but in both 60 hz and 480 hz
testings, the frequency on secondary was found to be
close to 18 Khz, and not the stated 20Khz;

Scoping of Solitary 4 inch neon/ 480 hz resonant
alternator inputs/ 20us/div; 200 volts/div
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00328.jpg

About 3 1/2 cycles in 200 us screen sweep time gives
about 17,500 hz.

I estimated this at 18,000 hz and then set up these 11
mh coils with 7.1 nf capacities on each side as
inversely phased resonances for the source frequency
resonance.

But first I tried this for a 180,000 hz resonance
using only ~70 pf per side, since I was getting a
tenth harmonic on a simple coil /bulb series scoping.

60 hz input at 110 volts to 18khz transformer/
Secondary Scoping of single 11mh coil in dual
inversely phased Marx Tank -at- for 180,000 hz resonance/
10 X probe/ 20 volts/div; 10 us/div
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00366.jpg

The 60 hz input gives a sporiadic ripple, however the
alternator primary sourcing gives a clean ripple;
heres the ripple at 20us/div from 60 hz variac;

Scoping of 11 mh coil in series with 17,500 hz neon
current/ 20 Khz NST -at- 112 volt 60 hz variac/ 20
volts/div; 20 us /div
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00338.jpg

Background Scoping of 11 mh coil in series with 17,500
hz neon current/ 20 Khz NST/ 185 volt 480 hz resonant
alternator primary/ 20 volts/div; 10 us /div
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/ATC/Dsc00332.jpg

Here a tenth harmonic riding on the ~ 18,000 hz can be
seen, and these 500 ft, 14 gauge, 11 mh multiturn
coils have also been tested for a resonant frequency
by other methods to show ~ 180,000 hz.

Now the two coils were set up for inversely phased
source frequency resonances using ~ 7.1 nf capacity on
each side. Large white styrene plate capacities were
used.
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/SST/Dsc00370.jpg

I had to do a great amount of fiddling with the bulb,
(by touching it) to even get it to light!, and this is
with L and C components on each side that is supposed
to deliver a phenomenal voltage rise by source
frequency resonance! This is the same principle that I
used to create voltage rise with the alternator, but
it doesnt seem to work with the solid state NST's.

Scoping of "book value" BRS/ non firing neon on
midpoint pathway/ 10 x probe/ 20 volts/div: 10us/div
showing 8th hamonic
http://groups.yahoo-dot-com/group/teslafy/files/SST/Dsc00372.jpg

So I didnt notice much of any voltage rise with these
methods. What I would like to know is if there is a
way to measure the AC amperage consumption on the
secondary at 18 khz? This was the procedure for
obtaining alternator resonances, by separately
measuring both the inductive and capacitive
reactance's amperage conductions, to make sure they
were near equal volumes.

It is more than likely that the "book value"
calculations for resonance are completely wrong, since
at 18 khz, the inductor might have a higher than
predicted inductive reactance, and this then entails
using a lower than predicted capacitive reactance for
the actual resonance. This is exactly what happened in
using 60 henry coils for a "second stage" of
alternator resonance, to increase the voltage way
beyond that 734 volts obtained by a set of "outer
delta series resonances, by placing another "inside"
resonance inside the outer. The high induction coils
had about 60% higher inductive reactance than was
predicted by formula.

So I should suspect that the same thing is happening
here, and much smaller capacities should be employed
in the attempt to create a 18 khz "source frequency
resonance"  As one can see with the book values of
resonance, I am only obtaining an 80 volt signal
across the inductor.

The actual calculated Q of these 11mh coils at 18 khz,
being only 1.2 ohms, should be over 1000.

If I could actually measure the AC amperage on the
secondaries, I might be able to "fine" tune for the
actual needed capacity to achieve resonance. Any
suggestions about how to measure that amperage on
secondary? Undoubtably the existance of the ripple
causes complications, but there might be the
possibility that the ripple will go away with the
correct L and C combinations. This sounds possible in
light of the fact that the ripple was reduced from 10
fold to 8 fold harmonics in this first attempt at
tuning.

If indeed we can make these solid state transformers
perform as source frequency resonators, they might
have some redeeming value after all!

Sincerely HDN