Re: 2 layer primary puzzle/Parallel-Series as Parametric Oscillation

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "harvey norris by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <harvich-at-yahoo-dot-com>


--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original poster: "James T by way of Terry Fritz
> <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <jamest2000-at-att-dot-net>
> 
> Hi Everyone,
>  I will keep this brief. I am working on an 8" coil
> with a 2 layer primary.
> I have constructed the primary and
> it is not behaving as I expected. I measured the
> inductance of the primary
> by itself.
>   What happens is, I measure from the outside of the
> top coil to the inside
> and the inductance goes up as
> expected. Then I drop down to the bottom layer and
> measure from the
> top/outside to the bottom/turn, oops, the
> inductance goes down as I go out. The inductance of
> the bottom coil seems
> to cancel the inductance of the top
> coil. Please set me straight on this.
> 1.understanding/myth - the winding direction between
> the 2 coils is irrelevant.
> 2. understanding/myth - the "mutual inductance" of
> the 2 coils increases
> inductance, not cancels out the
> others inductance.
> 3. 2 layer primary's are a practical approach. I
> seem to recall some posts
> on this, and it was considered
> reasonable. Brilliant to ask now that it is done!
> Any comments will help. Thanks,
>  James Cart
> 
Oops,you said any,so heres a possible scenario for
making a parametric oscillation.

The above description does not sound right at all. If
you had used magnetic cancellation the series
connection between identically wound spirals should be
on the inside, leaving two outside ends for inductance
measurement. The inductance should then be reduced by
the mutual inductance consideration. The opposite
approach could also be TWO options, where identical
spirals are NOT used, or rerouting the series
connection back to the outside spiral, and making the
measurement from outside to inside. In any case
complications seem to rise from the energy storage
between windings being increased. Whether or not this
is a myth becomes relevant from a study of Tesla's
patent indicating this, where I have placed an article
entitled
Myth of Tesla Patent 512,340 on 12/19/2000, at message
board linked below, here a quote extracted;

"Why is the above info a myth? Because no where does
Tesla specify the use of a bifilar coil in his patent.
It is the other people past Tesla who have interpreted
the patent as saying this. To further complicate
matters Teslas actual statement in the patent:

Let it be assumed that the terminals of this coil show
a potential difference of one hundred volts, and that
there are one thousand convolutions; then considering
any two contiguous points on adjacent convolutions let
it be assumed that there will exist between them a
potential difference of one-tenth of a volt. If now,
as shown in Figure 2, a conductor B be wound parallel
with the conductor A and insulated from it, and the
end of A be connected with the starting point of B,
the aggregate length of the two conductors being such
that the assumed number of convolutions or turns is
the same, viz., one thousand, then the potential
difference between any two points in A and B will be
fifty volts, and as the capacity effect is
proportionate to the square of this difference, the
energy stored in the coil as a whole will now be two
hundred and fifty thousand as great."

I myself cannot fathom exactly what Tesla is talking
about there, as it sounds like nonscence to me. The
patent can be seen at
http://www.keelynet-dot-com/tesla/00512340.htm
 I have Rerouted a spiral for dual pathways in mutual
inductance as similarly shown in that patent and it
gives a new total inductance just under 4 times that
of the original, and the inductance parameter being
the storage of energy component  of LI^2/2  this is
not a new energy oscillation of 250,000 times as great
as Tesla seems to indicate!

So it might be easy to conclude that since
interwinding capacity is detrimental for a tesla
secondary so that only single layer solenoidal
windings are used, the same might hold true for
multilayered primaries, and the idea therefore has
drawbacks. My understanding of a bifilar application
is the same as that employed on a center tapped
secondary, whereby opposite winding directions
themselves are encompassing the same flux change. Thus
by analogy identical spirals must have opposite ending
connections to opposite polarities for the same
"bifilar application" to occur with identical spirals.

However there are still options that seem to be
available. I have explored one of these options using
dual(Radio Shack Megacable) spirals, but have not been
able to make a secondary resonance to match that of
the primaries. The scenario there is to allow each
spiral not to be placed in series, but in parallel to
the high voltage source.  Each spiral is also given a
capacity in series. Then the provision is made for
ALLOWING THE ARC ITSELF TO BE THE ENABLER FOR PLACING
THE SPIRALS IN SERIES TO THE SOURCE VOLTAGE.

This idea might be called a parametric oscillation.
Amazingly we need only have a method of varying L, and
current will also conduct through L. This is shown
with AC alternator stator currents being induced with
no field present, where the movements of low
reluctance pathways of the pole faces of the field
rotor across the stator windings, in itself gives a
varying reluctance that the stator windings see, and a
resultant current flow of 1.5 amps for a shorted
stator phase with no field present, at the present rpm
testings producing 480 hz.

To see how such a dual primary might classify itself
in this category, we must analyse how the parallel
values compare to the same values in series.

Let us start with a  single primary L1 and C1. The
addition of C2 and L2 as a dual parallel pathway,(that
respective order of parallel connection makes the LC
series combinations themselves 180 out of phase, also
with the condition that L1=L2 and C1=C2  implies that
the voltage source will see L1 and L2's mutual
inductance in parallel as a single L value(if all the
flux were linked) If these primaries were moved apart
in space so that no mutual induction occurs, the
voltage source would then see an inductance of L/2.
For the capacities in parallel it is easy to see that
the source voltage then sees a combined capacity of C1
+C2. Now in resonance the term LC is a constant, so by
doubling one value, the other must be halved for the
same combination to be resonant to the initial resoant
frequency. Now of course the two primaries being air
core flux leakage, with a comparably low K value,
means that actually the L the source sees is nearer to
L/2 than the stated L value. Thus initially we should
have the values ~L/2 and (C1+C2) that will determine a
resonant frequency by their combinations.

NOW, the addition of an arc gap between the LC
parallel values midpoints then gives a new combination
of L and C values, where these now appear in series
upon gap firing. However as before seen the L1L2
series value of inductance, which should ordinarily be
twice the value without mutual inductance, may now be
closer to 4 times that value in mutual inductance.
Here the best way to consider things is to go by
actual LCR measurements. On the spirals I measured the
value was actually closer to L for the parallel
wiring, and 4L for series. This means that initially
the values L/2C are present, and during arcing
4L/(C/2), which are still the proper ratios for both
being resonant to the same frequency. Thus it seems
feasible the since both the L and C values changed, by
changing their schematic actions by arc gap, the
feasibility of calling this a parametric oscillation
seems justified.
 A good description of parametrics is found at
http://www.escribe-dot-com/science/freenrg/m5356.html

I have operated such a dual primary inputing 22 volts
to 10 KVA pole pig primary from an current limited 480
hz alternator input. To determine what the resonant
frequency of the spirals would be the L1L2/(C/2)
values predicted ~340,000 hz using .636 mh and .35 nf.
A solenoidal secondary has not yet been made for
further testings. HDN




=====
Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost-dot-com/teslafy/

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