Re: Neon Sign Transformers (was: spark length formula needed*)

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "Jim Lux by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <jimlux-at-earthlink-dot-net>

ALmost certainly could be true.. consider the NST as basically an ideal
transformer with a big inductor in series with the output.  The load is R
and C.  There will be signficant reactive power in this set up which a
secondary ammeter would show.  The primary, on the other hand, is outside
the LC loop, so it won't measure the reactive current..

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
To: <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: Neon Sign Transformers (was: spark length formula needed*)


> Original poster: "John H. Couture by way of Terry Fritz
<twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <couturejh-at-mgte-dot-com>
>
>
> Jim, All -
>
> The Tesla coil circuit is an RC type of load on the NST secondary. My
tests
> of NSTs indicate that under certain conditions the VA input to the NST
could
> be smaller than the VA output to the TC. Has anyone ever checked this
> possibility for a Tesla coil?
>
> John Couture
>
> -------------------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 4:58 PM
> To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> Subject: Re: Neon Sign Transformers (was: spark length formula needed*)
>
>
> Original poster: "Jim Lux by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>"
> <jimlux-at-earthlink-dot-net>
>
> You could also have bigger volt amps on one side than the other because of
> reactive power circulation.  Consider an inductor and capacitor in
parallel
> across the AC power line (resonance not necessary, nor desired).  The
volts
> is the same everywhere.  However the current drawn from the line will be
> substantially less than the sum of the currents through the inductor and
> capacitor.
>
> measuring true power (Watts) rather than apparent power (Volt Amps) will
> make everything come out right...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
> To: <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 12:51 PM
> Subject: RE: Neon Sign Transformers (was: spark length formula needed*)
>
>
> > Original poster: "David Halliday by way of Terry Fritz
> <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <dh-at-synthstuff-dot-com>
> >
> > Actually, the issue here is probably that the power measurements were
not
> > done using a "true RMS" meter.  The waveforms in a loaded NST and
resonant
> > Tesla Coil circuit are *not* a pure sine wave and most non true RMS
meters
> > are basing their readings on their assumption that the incoming waveform
> > *is* a pure sinewave.
> >
> > For more reading on this check out:
> > http://www.tinaja-dot-com/glib/muse112.pdf
> > ( Acrobat reader needed )
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -> -----Original Message-----
> > -> From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com]
> > -> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 11:54 AM
> > -> To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> > -> Subject: RE: Neon Sign Transformers (was: spark length
> > -> formula needed*)
> > ->
> > ->
> > -> Original poster: "John H. Couture by way of Terry Fritz
> > -> <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <couturejh-at-mgte-dot-com>
> > ->
> > ->
> > -> Marc -
> > ->
> > -> The NST is a strange beast. I have done numerous tests of
> > -> NSTs with varying
> > -> RC circuits. In some test the volt amps input was LESS than
> > -> the volt amps
> > -> output. An apparent violation of the laws of physics. Every
> > -> coiler should
> > -> make these tests and study what is happening. Tesla coils
> > -> are also strange
> > -> beasts like NSTs.
> > ->
> > -> John Couture
> > ->
> > -> ------------------------------
> > ->
> > -> -----Original Message-----
> > -> From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com]
> > -> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 9:01 AM
> > -> To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> > -> Subject: Re: spark length formula needed*
> > ->
> > ->
> > -> Original poster: "Metlicka Marc by way of Terry Fritz
> > -> <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>"
> > -> <mystuffs-at-orwell-dot-net>
> > ->
> > -> John,
> > -> Maybe what you are calling a "hanging tale" might be more of
> > -> an accuracy
> > -> then you think? Even trannys of the same wattage would, or
> > -> maybe, have a
> > -> wattage\time relation?
> > -> so for a bank of nst's compared to the pole pigs, the pig will just
> > -> charge faster?
> > -> Just idle thinking, but??????
> > -> Also, any config i throw in for my pt's, i always use the
> > -> pole pig. so
> > -> this most likely accounts for the accuracy's. Maybe nst bank users
> > -> "should be" using the pig option for a closer spark length output?
> > ->
> > -> Marc
> > ->
> > -> Tesla list wrote:
> > -> >
> > -> > Original poster: "John H. Couture by way of Terry Fritz
> > -> <twftesla-at-qwest-dot-net>" <couturejh-at-mgte-dot-com>
> > -> >
> > -> > Marc -
> > -> >
> > -> > Thank you for your interest in the JHCTES program.
> > -> Although this program
> > -> has
> > -> > taken several years to develop based on real world coils
> > -> the program still
> > -> > requires improvement. One example is the spark length
> > -> parameter. The
> > -> program
> > -> > shows that the spark length increases as the power source
> > -> voltage (NST
> > -> > secondary) increases. This voltage is also dependent on the voltage
> > -> > regulation of the source, and thereby hangs a tale.
> > -> >
> > -> > The voltage regulation differs for NST, pole transformers,
> > -> bombarders,
> > -> etc.
> > -> > Because of this variation the spark length for a NST at a
> > -> certain apparent
> > -> > wattage will be less than for a pole transformer, etc, of the same
> > -> wattage.
> > -> > The JHCTES program does not take voltage regulation into
> > -> consideration and
> > -> I
> > -> > have never heard of any spark length equation that does.
> > -> Some day when
> > -> > enough test info becomes available, this voltage
> > -> regulation parameter can
> > -> be
> > -> > added to equations and computer programs.
> > -> >
> > -> > Voltage regulation for a certain power source can change
> > -> with the type of
> > -> > load applied. This may be the reason that some coilers
> > -> have found a jump
> > -> in
> > -> > streamer behavior when the power changes because Tesla
> > -> coil operation is a
> > -> > varying load type of operation.
> > -> >
> > -> > John Couture
> > -> >
> > -> > --------------------------
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