Re: Water capacitor, was: Re: General Questions

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "Mark Broker by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <broker-at-uwplatt.edu>

Hello, all

I'm  supposed to be writing a science fiction short story (due tomorrow, and
no, I'm not using TCs in it).....  Hate creative writing, and I have aSERIOUS
case of senioritis (graduation is less than a month away!)......

Back to the topic.  I actually started a thread titled "Pure water capacitor"
around Feb 2000.  Being an engineering physics major, I had access to a near
limitless supply of 10Mohm/cm water from the chem dpt.  One of the chem/physics
profs (a "physical chemist") and I worked out some rough calcs, and decided
that it was more than doable using the available resources.  We didn't work out
any force equations, though - only breakdown/resistance calcs.

The problem is that a "Walmart-quality" purifier probably isn't good enough.  A
Britta pitcher/filter isn't going to work, and the deionized water (also a
Walmart product) probably will not, either.  But that's more guess-work than
fact.  I suppose if a large space is used between plates, then lower "quality"
water is needed....  My calcs were to use two 1/4" aluminum plates 16"x16"
spaced 1/8".  It would have worked in theory (for a resonant cap, I think).

The other problem is actually getting the parts clean.  EVERYTHING that goes
into the water (including the "tub") must be THOROUGHLY washed.  This means
soap and water, alcohol, MANY rinses, and then just letting things soak for
several weeks, and changing the water every day.  The problem is that only a
VERY few particles are needed to destroy the insulating properties of the
water. Soaking allows the "crud" to leech out of the plastic, metal, etc.

Also, the cap must have a top, so that dirt, dust, and other "stuff" can't
contaminate the water.

I remember doing a lot of thinking/designing, but decided to abandon it for the
MMC (and a good choice, I'd say).  The problem was that I'd never really know
without doing it, and I didn't feel like "wasting" a month and many $$$ on
parts (the Al and heavy plastic enclosure had to be purchased) only to have it
fail.  Plus I didn't want it to work, then fail a year down the road when
"crud" had leeched from the plastic and/or aluminum.

I'd love to see someone actually do some testing (and I know I don't have the
time between school projects, job hunting (anyone need a semi-experienced,
entry-level mechanical design engineer in the Milwaukee, WI or Kalamazoo, MI
area?), etc).

My two cents

Mark B.


Tesla list wrote:

>
> Original poster: "Terry Fritz"
<mailto:twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net><twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>
> 
> Yeah!!!
> 
> Once you can charge the thing at 60Hz, your are home free.  The RF is
> energy is easy.  Just keeping the water pure enough, long enough..., to
> charge the primary cap energy into the water cap (repeating at like 120
> BPS) to the primary capacitance is the key...  I don't personally know of
> any effort in rally getting a water primary TC cap to work.  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>         Terry
> 
> 
> At 11:08 PM 4/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> Terry, All, I can remember this topic coming up more than once on this list
>> (just do a search in the archives for "water capacitor"). I have always
>> thought that it was a very novel idea and that it would be very very cool if
>> if worked. I think that every time the idea was brought up it was shot down,
>> based on the idea that even if you could get water that pure you couldn't
>> keep it pure, electrolysis leading to hydrogen/oxygen explosion etc. etc.
>> The only thing is that after all that heresay and opinion over fact stuff is
>> that I don't think that anyone has ever actually tried making a water
>> capacitor! It may work with a Wal-Mart brand deionizer and it may not but to
>> my knowledge noone has ever done any research into the area. Considering the
>> benefits that a successful water cap could have (instant dielectric healing,
>> cooling, cost, availabilty) I can't see a single reason why a bit of fairly
>> ine! xpensive research would be unjustified. Also if you can get the water
>> pure enough there is no reason that it shouldn't really work (I can forsee
>> some problems with the circulating water, though), but the real question is
>> HOW pure you actually need your water. I do have a hunch, however, that a
>> circulating water capacitor may not work well at storing a charge for any
>> length of time or at low frequencies, may work w/ high frequency well
>> though, or I could be completely wrong all together Don your lab glasses and
>> "Let the experimenting begin!" Jason Johnson ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tesla list" <mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com><tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> To:
>> <mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com><tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001
>> 8:58 PM Subject: Re: General Questions 
>>>
>>> Original poster:!  "Terry Fritz"
>>> <mailto:twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net><twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net> Hi, So, with one able to
>>> buy a fancy filter at WallMart and rig a recirc system.  Then getting
>>> distilled water and all.  Is it possible to make a Tesla primary cap with
>>> plates in really pure (that a normal guy can make) deionized water.  You
>>> would have to charge the water immersed plates at 60Hz to like 20kV.  It
>>> sounds really tough since the high voltage would want to mess up the water
>>> really fast, but thought I would ask... Cartridge filters and little water
>>> pumps are relativley cheap if it would have a chance of working... I
>>> thought it would be a practical use for some of this "chemystery" talk 
>>
>> ;-)) 
>>>
>>> Cheers, Terry 
>>
>