Re: Secondary Q(3 phase musings)

["harvey norris" <harvich-at-xxxxxxxxx> (by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-xxxxxxxxxx>)]

--- Tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> Original poster: "Jim Lux" <jimlux-at-earthlink-dot-net> 
> 
> I'd say, looking at some of the waveforms that folks
> have published from
> time to time that the Q of a typical TC is around
> 10-15.  Obviously, once
> the spark forms, the Q drops dramatically...
That statement can be misconstrued in some instances. 
In the AC converted three phase alternator I have been
working on the delta components have been  presently
designed to be close to series resonant using 4.88 uf
and .15 Henry  to the 188 hz input. It provides a
voltage rise of 12.2 as an acting Q as recorded from
data;

The voltage across that phase then reads 233 volts.
Given a 19 volt input the voltage rise made by that q
appears to be 12.2 The voltage across the midpoints of
two phases then reads 367.5 volts, which at 1.73 of
that value should have read 403 volts, showing that
the system is still not completely tuned.
Now the conditions of a triple short were made, using
the new values of 4.88 uf instead of 4 uf. Those
values of using the 4 uf were close to the 4.1 uf
predicted to be used at 201 hz. That method gave 10.4
ma input, 67.3 ma for phase current and 104 ma for
midpoint current. The new 4.88 uf values gave 9.7 ma
line input current, 50.7 ma phase current, but only
10.7 ma midpoint current! 

Now what is hown here is a model of a component that
produces a voltage rise by the q factor, but no arcing
is yet exploited from these meager voltages. The
correct value to resonate is 4.7 uf which I have not
yet tried; but what was tried was small 15 watt
florescents, in which two will normally light: these
three loads are then placed across the 3 unobvious
potentials between the delta series resonant midpoints
where the voltage across the bulbs then read only 50
volts shows the actual voltage dropping in
correspondence with the load, equivalent to what you
are saying with a drop of q upon arcing, where the
actions of the bulb are a remote analogy. Now taking
this further instead of the bulbs acting as loads we
could instead construct another LC quantity in the
interior, but instead of providing another voltage
rise by making that LC quantity resonant to the source
frequency: we can make it resonant to the interior
coils "self resonant frequency" exactly as is done
with a tesla coil secondary. Now since the three
15,000 volts NST's  I have are 30 ma current limited
on output,it seems safe to assume I can send the 19
volt alternator inputs to their primaries tied also in
delta to produce 125 times the voltatge in all the
components, neglecting losses. Thus 125*367=45,875
volts become available to those three internal
components. Now in the single phase state of the art
all well investigated by members of this list: {but
there are some malcontents such as myself, and perhaps
Ken Herricks post here also about putting less in and
getting the most out of a minimised circuit input here
applies so thats a gameplan},the capacity to be used
with a single phased secondary is always a polar
capacity, spheres and toroids: but here we are
attempting to exploit INTERPHASAL ARCING. What  was
formerly was used as polar capacities should now
become REAL  air plated capacities between the inner
secondaries, all matched as self resonant frequencies.
In this scenario exactly the opposite effect should
occur: before the arc forms the resonant rise of
voltage is limitied to that made by the 45,000 volt
input made by 3 phase series resonant rises of voltage
inputed by the NST's:BUT AFTER THE ARC FORMS, a
further voltage rise than becomes available by the new
q made at the higher vibration, made only on the
interior coils. How can this be possible? It is
because of the rengineering of the tesla coil idea to
three phase, whereas in 3 phase the return current
becomes one of the other phases, seemingly eliminating
the need for a return wire, where here we are
eliminating the need for a primary arc gap by making
the secondary itself serve the function of conversion
to high frequency via initiating the arc on the
interior Wye or Delta configurations. The purpose of
the primary delta formation then only becomes that of
offering a resonant rise of voltage to the interior
components, thus scaling them up considerably from
present single phase appearances.

   If we have arcing between two of these terminals or
plates in any moment in time, that effectively is a
model of a  3 Phase Bipolar Oudin High Frequency
Autotransformer because the secondaries themselves are
tied to the primaries,as the interior loads made from
delta primary midpoints: each appearing with opposite
current flows in moments of time with relation to
those midpoints. Finally to again address Ken's
concern with making good efficiencies, this was the
reason for showing the amperages of the 3 phase
circuit when the midpoints are shorted. It then
consumes minimal amperage, and since these arcs are
modeled as paths within this short, this a possible
method for getting good efficiencies!  In the bulb 
case 0.3 amps were measured line amperages-at-19 volts
line voltage from the alternator. The ratio of wattage
expended as heat in coils was .7 watts using 1.15 Amps
phase amperages across 12 ohms compared to 8.3 watts
expended to dimly light two bulbs across two phases,
this should be improved with another try at better C
values.
> 
> But, by all means, pour on the coal...
> 
> Tesla list wrote:
> > 
> > Original poster: "Kennan C Herrick"
> <kcha1-at-juno-dot-com>
> > 
> > 2.48?...A Q of 2.48??  I am shocked!...shocked! 
> Here, during all these
> > years of thinking about Tesla coils--over 60 of
> them, I will have you
> > know!--I've been under the misapprehension that
> Tesla-coilers depended
> > upon, cherished and highly valued...resonance! 
> But no..., no..., no...
> > Q?...who needs it?  Resonance, even...who needs
> it?  With the power and
> > voltage of a Grand Coulee or a TMI or even, in
> better times, of a
> > Chernobyl, coupled thru a vast pile of pole pigs,
> who needs resonance?
> > 
> > I've always likened Tesla-coilers to those
> profound Asian monks who
> > ritually bong upon their magnificent bronze gongs.
>  But no, most of you
> > just pour on the coal.  While I strive to maximize
> output while
> > minimizing input, your goal is to maximize output
> while maximizing input.
This is a very amusing post, but perhaps it should be
noted in the system I describe everything IS
BACKWARDS: from the inside out, instead of the outside
in. This means amperage demand is reduced upon arcing,
and if arcing does not occur that could mean problems
hopefully eliminated by current limited NST's.But this
is all idle speculation/food for thought for now.
Sincerely Inquisitive/ not Inquisitor  HDN

=====
Binary Resonant Systemhttp://www.insidetheweb-dot-com/mbs.cgi/mb124201

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