[Prev][Next][Index][Thread]

Re: The worlds Largest Coil

>Original Poster: "Jim Lux" <jimlux-at-jpl.nasa.gov>
>
>Comments interspersed..
>
>Main comment... On large scale projects the mechanical aspects will greatly
>outweigh the electrical ones.. After all, how complex is a coupled tuned
>circuit, electrically...
>
>You're looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars to build something like
>this, without considering any of the electrical components, just for
>structural materials, equipment rental (cranes, etc.), and crew (riggers,
>ironworkers, etc.)
>

Easily $150,000 though I am planning on $200K right now. It seems like a lot 
doesn't it? But look at it from the big picture.

$300 for a simple MMC cap. This I can't afford untill next week...that's a 
lot of money isn't it?

$10,000 for the body work of Geek3, donated.
$5,000 for the mechanical work on Geek-3, Donated.
$2,000 for the lighting and electronics on Geek-3 (and counting), donated
$212,000 for the building in Grand Rapids, plus yearly property taxes as 
well, Donated.

The following is proposed.
$80,000,000 building and facility, donated use with option to buy for 10 
years. It will sell to us at a fraction of that.
$10,000,000 for the grounds (includeing half of the lakeshore, dual rail 
spurs, and half a mile of road, with a bridge)
$25,000,000 Capital campaign for remodel and startup costs, this is a 
ballpark as we haven't gotten our full paperwork from the accountants yet 
and I have to finish the budget.

$200K for a coil project isn't a lot of money in the big picture. A well 
designed 128track digital studio is gonna set me back double that. Not to 
mention the RETURN this coil will make my company in advertising, and 
renting the use of it out. It will be a powerfull fundraiser. Nothing as 
good as Wysocks 13M because it's portable. He can take his to movie sets and 
concerts, mine is stuck right there, and that's fine. I have no desire to 
get into the pro-coiler arena, too many headaches.

The Kalamazoo Museaum just did a $20M capital campaign, and got it in 6 
months! And the museaum sucks. My facility is going to be incredible, the 
only one of it's kind in the world. The lisat of potential sponsors is 
staggering, everyone from Intel to LEGO, and we will be able to raise the 
funding easily. We have nevr had a problem with getting people to take a 
look at what we're trying to do and want to help and be a part of it. We're 
the good guys, and a healthy writeoff, :)



>
>----------
> >
> > Original Poster: "Christopher Boden" <chrisboden-at-hotmail-dot-com>
> >
> > comments gently folded throughout to add texture...
> > >Original Poster: "Jim Lux" <jimlux-at-jpl.nasa.gov>
> > >
> > >Some more calculations..
> > >
> > >Assume a spherical top load 10 m in radius (32.5 ft, 390 inches) =
>1100pF
> >
> > I love how you just toss that out....lol....a 10M stainless monocoque
>sphere
> > is a rather impresive item by itself. It will be beautifull.
>
>It's always good to just ballpark your plan, just to see if it is even in
>the realm of feasibility... Make those simple assumptions, run the numbers,
>and then, if it looks like it might work, start looking at the
>implementation details..
>

I want to finish the design with incredible detail. To pull this off there 
have to be very few suprises. I need to know everything, down to the last 
bolt. I'm a fanatic for detailed budgets.


> > >Assume a secondary 20 ft in diameter and 100 ft high with windings 
>every
>3
> > >inches = 166 mH
> >
> > That's the full tower size, will such a large sec be required?
>
>Don't know.. just threw it out to get a feel for it.  In general, though,
>yes, because of the voltage stress along the L, it will need to be quite
>long.
> >
> > What would the best method of construction be? Fiberglass encased tower?
> > What are the options for tower construction other than wooden form (the
> > costs of the Sitka would be staggering for such a design).
> > And I don't think they make PVC that big :)
>
>Personally, I am a big fan of Extren(tm) pultruded fiberglass structural
>members (http://www.strongwell-dot-com/pult/EXTREN.htm) for larger HV
>structures. Structurally, they are much like aluminum (at least for
>strength and weight), although more flexible. The cost is about the same as
>aluminum.  It's available from most large steel distributors in all
>standard structural shapes (I beam, angles, tubes, etc) and sizes.
>
>You'll need a structural engineer to design something this big, and make
>sure they know how to design with composites which have nonisotropic
>characteristics.

I'll have a call to them monday :)


>
> >
> > Also, with a tower of this size there comes another problem. We cannot
>wind
> > it with conventional means. The tower will have to be built, erected,
>then
> > wound by a suspended spool and a guy in a rappeling harness. Plan on 
>that
>
> > person spending the better part of a full day in that harness laceing
>wire
> > into pre-machined slots in the tower while another person either 
>operates
>a
> > crane holding the spool, or a dolly on the ground traveling a circular
>path
> > (though supporting the wire weight for the winder would be hard like
>this).
>
>No one said it would be easy.  It will probably take weeks to wind. But,
>the idea of precutting slots and driving around it (or set up a temporary
>scaffold around it like window washers use) as you lay the wire into the
>slots is proabably as good as any.  You could also just rent a 100 foot
>"snorkel lift" for the weeks, but it's a pain to drive around a tower, so
>you'd probably need two, one for each side. I'd go with the scaffold on
>winches.. you'll need it for maintenance.
>

We will have to get the services of a construction company. Maintainence is 
easy, I'm a rock climber, and many of my friends are too. Rappelling is FUN! 
:)


> > >Self C of secondary is another 500 pF
> > >Resonant frequency is about 10 kHz..
> >
> > That's nice and low, well under most broadcast radio (FM is 88 to 108
>MHz).
>And lower than AM, which is 550-1600 kHz, and right at the Omega Nav
>frequencies (10-14 kHz), where you get worldwide single mode propagation.

Think of the uses of this beast for Schummen (SP?) research!


> >
> >
> > >At this frequency, the impedance of the secondary is about 10.4 Kohm.
> > >
> > >Say we want the Q of the secondary system to be at least 10.. The wire
> > >resistance needs to be <1 K.
> > >There is about 25000 ft of wire in the secondary, so we want our wire 
>to
>be
> > ><40 ohms per thousand feet.. or AWG 24.   In reality, you'd probably
>want a
> > >design Q of 100, so you'd want <4 ohms/thousand feet, or AWG 14...  
>This
>is
> > >readily available in long lengths at a reasonable price.
> >
> > What's the largest spool we can get from Beldon? 5000'? How do we splice
>it
> > while winding? With 3" between turns it should be easy.
>
>You can get arbitrarily long lengths (think about cross country power
>lines) of wire.. Splice it like any other wire, twist, solder, crimp,
>whatever..  You better look into copper futures (or use aluminum)... The
>60% increase in resistance won't make much difference, and it will be much
>cheaper and lighter...
> >

ACSR would be a good choice then...and I can get massive spools donated 
easily (I have friends in the local power company) :)


> > >
> > >With the 10 meter diameter top load, the maximum stored energy would be
> > >1000pF * (10*3MV)^2/2 = 448 kJ. so your pump energy (per pulse) would 
>be
> > >45kJ per pulse.  At 720 pulses/second, the power draw would be about
>32MW.
> > >The secondary winding would be dissipating that much heat, by the way.
> >
> > We will dissapate 32 MILLION WATTS through the windings? Wow.....
> > Is there any way to NOT waste so much energy?
>
>Make the Q higher... or make wimpy sparks.. your choice...If you want to
>use resonant rise to get the high voltage, you're sort of constrained..

Alright, how do we get Higher Q?

> >
> >
> > >
> > >It would be a relatively feeble lightning stroke too, at 15 kJ/meter.
>(But
> > >still mighty impressive...)
> > 15000 joules per meter.....what is average for a good coil?
>
>A whole lot less.... Run the calcs..  Most likely a few joules/meter..
>
>
> > Would a smaller tower (80') get us more power, thicker strokes?
> > I want the longest hottest discharge we can get. I want to be able to 
>see
>
> > this from miles away.
>
>Consider the visual horizon.. how many miles?
>

hmmm...from this height you could probably see it from space....lol
Line of sight for the stacks is about 5 to 20Miles depending on direction.


> > >How much would this cost?  A bunch, but mostly in structural
>components..
>
>A data point.. I built a 50 foot high artificial tornado using standard
>structural stuff, renting cranes, etc,
>(http://www.reelefx-dot-com/Tornado/40footVolvo.htm), and it cost somewhere
>between $100K and $1M (actual cost is a trade secret of Reel EFX). This was
>a temporary structure, and not designed to be particularly durable or safe
>(it met the requirements of the entertainment industry job).  It took a
>crew of something like a dozen people a month, and some wretchedly
>expensive rental gear, as well as a BIG crane.
>
>

Neet toy :) I like the fire vortex :)


Have fun guys :)

Chris B.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail-dot-com