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30 BPS, 60 BPS tests




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From:  Robert W. Stephens [SMTP:rwstephens-at-headwaters-dot-com]
Sent:  Tuesday, March 17, 1998 8:29 PM
To:  tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
Subject:  Re: 30 BPS, 60 BPS tests

> From:  John H. Couture [SMTP:couturejh-at-worldnet.att-dot-net]
> Sent:  Tuesday, March 17, 1998 12:36 AM
> To:  Tesla List
> Subject:  Re: 30 BPS, 60 BPS tests
> 
> At 12:16 AM 3/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> >----------
> >From:  Robert W. Stephens [SMTP:rwstephens-at-headwaters-dot-com]
> >Sent:  Wednesday, March 11, 1998 12:27 PM
> >To:  Tesla List
> >Subject:  Re: 30 BPS, 60 BPS tests
> >
> >> From:  John H. Couture [SMTP:couturejh-at-worldnet.att-dot-net]
> >> Sent:  Monday, March 09, 1998 11:22 PM
> >> To:  Tesla List
> >> Subject:  Re: 30 BPS, 60 BPS tests
> >
> >John Couture wrote:
> >
> >>   Because the TC system contains capacitors it has the ability to store
> >> electrical energy over more than one spark gap operation. This means the
> >> electrical energy can build up in the secondary circuit and provide one
> >> extra long random spark. This type of operation is obvious because the
> >> random sparks emitted from the secondary terminal are not of the same length
> >> indicating different amounts of voltage and energy on the secondary terminal.
> >
> >John, All,
> >
> >I can't believe you are still thinking in this mode John. I thought 
> >Malcolm pretty much beat this point to death explaining it long ago. Sure the 
> >TC contains capacitors, but your statement about energy being stored 
> >in the secondary resonator to 'add up in sequential firings of the 
> >oscillator gap to suddenly conspire on occasion to make one 
> >occasional and random bigger streamer' JUST AIN'T POSSIBLE!
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
>   If you are referring to Malcolm's scope waveform comment you have fallen
> into the same trap as Malcolm. Malcolm's comment regarding the time between
> bursts is incorrect. The static charge on the toroid could not be seen on
> the waveform because a static (DC) voltage cannot be read thru a capacitive
> coupling.   
> 
>   The ionization of the air does help to some extent to maintain the spark
> but it is not a source of energy that can increase the spark length.
> 
>   The random extra long spark length is not due to the "wham" you describe.
> 
>   JC
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >Now introduce the second variable phenomenon.   If this happens at the
> >right moment after a series of previous pops have laid an arc channel all over
> >the same path and the channel is nicely seeded with ions, wham, you will get 
> >your longest random streamer!  Most of the time you are popping at 
> >much less than full charge, and the streamer once launched will often 
> >be heading in a different direction where there is no nicely paved 
> >ion highway, so it has to break new ground as it were.  The result is 
> >a less than max streamer length.
> >
> >Robert W. Stephens
> >Director
> >Lindsay Scientific Co.
> >RR1 Shelburne, ON Canada L0N-1S5
> >Tel: 1-519-925-1771   Fax: 
> >*Custom built Tesla coils, etc., for museum display 
> > and special effects work.
> >*Canada's largest publicly accessible wall-to-wall
> > indoor lightning show...by appointment.
> >*Future home of Electric Science World, 
> > educational/entertaining Theatre of Electricity.
> >*Antique TV Museum...in search and acquire mode now.
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Inquiries welcomed! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John,

Once again you fail to see the photons.

I will make a couple of statements in comment on your above, and then 
I do not wish to (apparently) waste any further effort trying to 
convey something which can be easily found out first hand by almost 
anyone who is willing to go to the trouble of actually building 
merely a junior level tabletop Tesla coil and observing its operation with a
simple antenna pickup probe and cheap $15 fleamarket oscilloscope.

Point 1: There is *no* DC charge left on the toroid after a bang.  Richard Hull 
has for one rather graphically demonstrated that the mechanism for 
charge storage in a capacitor system is within the dielectric, not 
the metal plates.  So your comment about your DC charge remaining on 
the topload, especially considering it is held by a copper conductor 
(secondary resonator) featuring  just a few ohms DC resistance to ground which
is an effective DC current drain, is mistaken.  The air surrounding the topload does
get charged, and although I cannot yet prove it by simple demonstration, I have a
gut feeling that it does account for some form of energy handshaking 
with the streamer when streamers repeatedly punctuate it.  Note that I'm now 
talking about a *different* effect than merely a pre-ionized, conductive highway 
conveniently remaining in place for following streamers to take an 
easier and longer ride upon, which also occurs as mentioned in my 
earlier post.

Point 2: I dissagree with you that an o-scope capacitively coupled will not be able
to detect the presence of a static charge on a sphere.  If you have a sphere which can 
actually be charged to a DC value and which will remain charged, like in 
a Van de Graaff generator, but not as in a Tesla coil, and place your scope probe 
with a metallic antenna mass attached and hold it within the E-field gradient, if it is
in DC mode and has a high enough input impedance, will, because we have a
capacitor between the sphere and the scope probe and earth or surrounding objects,
be able to see the presence of steady state static DC electricity at the location of the 
probe.  In the case of remotely scoping a Tesla coil, what will  be 
readily observed is the changing of the voltage  level found on the top 
terminal, and hence its waveform.  In the long silence between bangs 
on a Tesla coil, this simple test easily shows conclusively that there just isn't any 
waveform activity here. 

Capacitors are generally thought to block DC and pass AC, but strings of capacitors
in series, as well as the dielectric within a single capacitor, contains a field gradient in
both the DC and AC cases which can be rather easily measured in the temporal 
regieme.

Robert W. Stephens
Director
Lindsay Scientific Co.
RR1 Shelburne, ON Canada L0N-1S5
Tel: 1-519-925-1771   Fax: 
*Custom built Tesla coils, etc., for museum display 
 and special effects work.
*Canada's largest publicly accessible wall-to-wall
 indoor lightning show...by appointment.
*Future home of Electric Science World, 
 educational/entertaining Theatre of Electricity.
*Antique TV Museum...in search and acquire mode now.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Inquiries welcomed! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~