# Re: How should we measure coil efficiency, was neon vs. potenti

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From: 	Scott Taylor[SMTP:staylor-at-ppco-dot-com]
Sent: 	Friday, August 01, 1997 10:05 AM
To: 	Tesla List
Subject: 	Re: How should we measure coil efficiency, was neon vs.    potenti

E=hf IS a quantum relationship dealing with atomic and molecular
transitions.  If I want to excite and atom or molecule from an intial state
to an excited state I need a photon with the appropriate energy given by
delta_E = hf.  Where delta_E is the energy difference between states.  Going
from the ground state to the excited state REQUIRES a photon.  If an
atom/molecule is in an excited state it does not stay there indefinitely, it
will decay EMITTING a photon (hang on we'll get to Tesla Coils in a minute)
with energy given by delta_E = hf.

Lets explore this for just a moment...consider an infrared transition
needing a photon with wavelength of 1 micron ( one millionth of a meter).
If I know the wavelength, I know the frequency, i.e., f = c/lambda (where
lambda is the 1 micron wavelength of the photon and "c" is the speed of
light).  Lets calculate the frequency of this photon

f = 3 x 10^8 meters/sec / 1 micron = 3 x 10^14 Hz!!!!  or 300 THz (i.e. Tera
Hertz!)

This is way bigger than any Tesla Coils we deal with operate at.  Guess
what, the frequency gets even larger once you go to the visible portion of
the spectrum....Now in the spark/arc/streamers produced by a TC discharge
delta_E = hf rules.  That is why you see the spark.  My guess is what we are
seeing are the photons generated when ionized and excited gases capture
electrons to become neutrals again (yes, that is considered a transition)
and give off photons defined by delta_E = hf.  The "f" in this Bohr-Einstein
equation has nothing to do with the spark length a TC is able to produce.
For a given spark lengths, you will notice they are all about the same
color.  When you put your grounding rod closer to your TC secondary the the
spark gets more "white hot" because the Electric Field is that much more
intense and you create more excited species (including ionized gases).

My 2 cents worth,

Scott Taylor

>
>From: 	John H. Couture[SMTP:couturejh-at-worldnet.att-dot-net]
>Sent: 	Thursday, July 31, 1997 12:52 PM
>To: 	Tesla List
>Subject: 	Re: How should we measure coil efficiency, was neon vs.    potenti
>
>At 11:56 PM 7/29/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>From: 	Wes A Brzozowski[SMTP:wesb-at-blue.spectra-dot-net]
>>Sent: 	Tuesday, July 29, 1997 6:05 AM
>>To: 	Tesla List
>>Subject: 	Re: How should we measure coil efficiency, was neon vs.   potenti
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, Tesla List wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> From: 	Greg Leyh[SMTP:lod-at-pacbell-dot-net]
>>> Sent: 	Sunday, July 27, 1997 2:29 PM
>>> To: 	Tesla List
>>> Subject: 	Re: How should we measure coil efficiency, was neon vs.   potenti
>>>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Wes -
>
>  Greg forgot to multiply by the number of atoms involved. Planck's constant
>is atomic in nature and a fundamental constant in wave mechanics.
>
>  Tesla coils use oscillators which produce dampened waves. It appears from
>this energy equation that the energy would increase as the frequency of the
>waves increases, other factors being equal.
>
>  John Couture
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>>> Tesla List wrote:
>>>
>>> >   Where did you find that higher frequency gives shorter sparks?  I
believe
>>> > it is the other way around.  The higher the frequency the longer the
spark.
>>> >
>>> >    Energy = hf    h = Planck's constant   f = freq.
>>> >
>>> >    From the above equation the energy increases as the frequency
increases,
>>> > other factors being equal. This would mean when the frequency
increases the
>>> > spark length increases.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ha ha ha!  So my coil's energy = 6.626E-34 X 60 kHz =  3.975E-29 Joules!!!
>>
>>Your coil doesn't look too promising, does it?  ;-)
>>
>>Actually, I don't think the equation quoted has a whole lot of relevance
>>to the discussion. Per my best recollection, this is a quantum physics
>>relation between the energy in a single photon and that photon's
>>(that's photons) and only radiates them so rarely that you can distinguish
>>individual ones, then we may wish to consider it of use. Otherwise, we may
>>need to exercise some real creativity to apply it here.
>>
>>Actually plugging in a few numbers as you did can provide a useful sanity
>>check. Take care...
>>
>>Wes B.
>>
>>*****************************************************************************
>>* wesb-at-spectra-dot-net *       "It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy...       *
>>*                  *          ..Let's go exploring."     - Calvin           *
>>*****************************************************************************
>>
>>
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