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Re: Primary Qs
Tesla List wrote:
>
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
>
> >From dll-at-egg-rb-dot-comMon Oct 7 21:49:15 1996
> Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 08:57:12 -0400 (EDT)
> From: dll-at-egg-rb-dot-com
> To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
>
> On Fri, 4 Oct 1996, Tesla List <tesla-at-poodle.pupman-dot-com> wrote:
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >
> >>From hullr-at-whitlock-dot-comFri Oct 4 22:09:51 1996
> >Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 10:28:54 -0700
> >From: Richard Hull <hullr-at-whitlock-dot-com>
> >To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> >Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >
> >Tesla List wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> >> >> Subject: Re: Primary Qs
> <SNIP>
> >
> >Remember folks, if you are out havin' fun and looking for sparks, use
> >equations the least and the power switch the most. You will develop a
> >feel for the system and all the charcteristics which science seeks to pin
> >down with precision. You will ultimately acquire a general comprehension
> >of materials and methods required through deed and artifice. Most of
> >your work will evolve through hunches and guess work.
> >
> >If you are out to further the science of High voltage resonant
> >systems, then be very mindful of the need for physical constants in
> >formulating equations. You will need to do a bit of lab work to define
> >them in order to apply the mathematics which guides you hand.
> >
> >
> >I'm a little of both and a lot of neither. Engineers rely on mathematics
> >to design a lot of stuff. Old engineers rely on experience to temper the
> >rush to accept the math as something precise and use a lot of "fudge
> >factors" (formerly, physical constants) in creating real works.
> >
> >Richard Hull, TCBOR
> >
> Your response was amusing but not entirely accurate in my opinion. I happen to
> believe as many do that there is order behind the undiscovered secrets of the
> universe. While the models we use to try to explain the behavior of physical
> devices such as Tesla coils fall short of providing general solutions, they do
> help guide the experimentalist to make better choices about what to do next.
> Paschen's curve is simply one of those models. It is incomplete and relies on
> assumptions about electric fields that are not completely accurate. Neverthe
> less it does provide a starting place for the selection of gap spacings type of
> gas and electrode material. Every day I read the postings of this group, and I
> see some very sophisticated work being discussed. Why do you assume that the
> majority of the participants are incapable of using models based on concepts of
> plasma physics when they seem perfectly capable of using models that derive from
> Maxwell's equations which are far more complex than Paschen's Law?
>
> Dave Lockwood
Dave,
Good question! Why do I think the bulk of the "participants" are
incapable of applying a number of complex concepts? I don't think that
THIS GROUP'S participants, per se, (the ones posting) are incapable.
Only some of the listeners and non-contributors. Do not misunderstand
me. An do not presume this list serves even a tiny fraction of the
coiling community, for it does not. I consider it the gathering place of
folks who are really doin' something!
The coiling community is far more vast than you might imagine. I still
state and stand by my original statement of intent, THAT THE BULK OF THE
COILERS WILL MIS-APPLY SIMPLE EQUATIONS! I see it happen a lot! They
have the right to do that, but in doing so they also have no right to
complain that there answers are out in left field!
I am more against the crowd of coilers who believe that because their
stuff is based on calculations that it will work when sometimes it
doesn't, and then they say "well there is YET another variable to take
care of"! Pretty soon the variables (formerly constants) so litter the
work that one has to realize that best guess by informed hands will play
about as well.
You are right about every thing in nature obeying very strict rules. I
not only believe this, as a scientific mind, I know it! In the average
high power coil system in full tilt operation, how many thousands of
different nuances are at work in linear and non-linear fashion how many
orders of differentials will be needed to satisfy how many equations
filled with how many wobbling constants before we can really pin it all
down.
I realize that a slow step by step process is normal, as we tap into the
secrets of each of these little nuances. Unfortunately, most coilers
(spread over the entire coiling community) are looking for a neat simple
solution and there is none to be found.
I am more for the human engine as the perfect integrator and differential
engine. It is the fountain head of science. One informed human can,
after some training, "eyeball" and "best guess" many systems to an order
of perfection which would reguire several knowledge laden specialists in
a number of disciplines to run through mathematically. Sometimes, I see
science as searching for answers and reducing them to equations in order
that that specific discipline can have a firm base to stand upon. This
is good, but few scientists from outside the discipline could really
apply some of the math without some knowledge of the physical constants
and wobblings peculiar to that discipline. If we tread on 20 different
disciplines and have never been expert in one of them, then how can we
hope to perfect a general system operation which is optimal on first
pass. It never happens.
I see this as what the average neophyte coiler seeks armed with a
computer. A first pass success.
Richard Hull, TCBOR