Re: 3/4 wavelength secondaries

Tesla List wrote:
> > > Subject: re: 3/4 wavelength secondaries
> > Subject: Re: 3/4 wavelength secondaries
> > > Subject: re: 3/4 wavelength secondaries
> >From sgreiner-at-wwnet-dot-comMon Jul 29 21:41:45 1996
> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 14:02:36 -0700
> From: Skip Greiner <sgreiner-at-wwnet-dot-com>
> To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> Subject: Re: 3/4 wavelength secondaries
> Tesla List wrote:
> >
> > > Subject: re: 3/4 wavelength secondaries
> >
> > >From hullr-at-whitlock-dot-comWed Jul 24 21:43:11 1996
> > Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:16:33 -0700
> > From: Richard Hull <hullr-at-whitlock-dot-com>
> > To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> > Subject: Re: 3/4 wavelength secondaries
> >
> > Tesla List wrote:
> > >
> > > >From sgreiner-at-wwnet-dot-comTue Jul 23 21:59:58 1996
> > > Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:32:37 -0700
> > > From: Skip Greiner <sgreiner-at-wwnet-dot-com>
> > > To: tesla list <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
> > > Subject: re: 3/4 wavelength secondaries
> > >
> > > Thanks to Richard Hull, Robert W. Stevens, and John H. Couture for their
> > > answers to my query re the subject.
> > >
> > >
> Richard:
> You always make some very good points. I mentioned in another post that I do not
> understand the physics of a TC. That notwithstanding, I think I have a question which
> bears on this whole discussion. The gap fires and a pulse of energy is delivered to the
> secondary from Cp. In fact several pulses are delivered since there is oscillation in
> the primary circuit. The pulse(s) propagate up the secondary to the terminal capacitance
> whatever it may be. The pulse is partially absorbed by the terminal cap and reflected
> back down the secondary (?) as an oscillation. The oscillations in the secondary are by
> definition AC. How can a pulse of AC charge up the terminal cap (assuming that the first
> pulses are not sufficient to cause discharge breakout). If what we are doing is only
> charging up the terminal cap with the first positive (or negative) swing of the pulse
> train until the toroid reaches breakout voltage, then I can understand your point. But,
> if we are somehow actually charging up the terminal cap using successive pulses, then i
> am at a loss.
> Can you be more definitive? I would appreciate it.
> Skip

Skip, All

A bit of this was discussed a month or two back.  This actually bears 
heavily on the work I am currently investigating.

Ideally, (never achieved in most amateur systems) we should only pop the 
primary with the first positive going single pulse of the first energy 
delivery of the Cp then the gap should (quench) turns off and no ring 
down in the primary occurs.  The ring down in the secondary always 
occurs, however.


The terminal capacitance acts as an ISOTROPIC CAPACITANCE!  It is 
immersed in a clould of ions created with or without discharge!  More are 
created with discharge, however.


Here is where I enter my thoughts on the matter based on imperical 
measurement and some careful reflection as to what is going on.

First of all forget the primary.  The secondary rings up on the first 
pulse of the first alternation and pushes ions out from it.  These ions 
on the first pulse are produced in a quantity and with a relative 
velocity which will exceed all future oscillations in the "Ring Down".  
Thus, ions are rapidly accelerated out from the terminal and at the zero 
crossing are at some distance X any from the terminal.  The negative 
pulse trys to draw or sweep this "ion wave" back to the terminal.  It 
can't complete the job from a number of reasons. 

 First, the original wave has MOMENTUM and enough enrgy must be applied 
to brake it and then reverse it.  Second, the inverse square law applies 
at this range (coulombs law) and the energy or voltage needed to sweep up 
or drag even a stationary ion cloud at range will far exceed even the 
energy of the pulse that sent it!  Lastly, the energy and voltage of each 
successive pulse is diminished based on the decrement of the wave.  Thus, 
the the coil is a net supplier of electrons to a dielectric (air) via an 
ion wave process.  The terminal capacitance has a modulated DC voltage on 
it as it charges more and more due to the collecting of space charged ion 


I would ask any of you who are "in-the-know" from the "doing" around big 
coils, to considered that really big coils with really gigantic toroids 
all produces major individual arcs at a rate almost two or three orders 
of magnitude slower than the break rate!!!!  This points to charging of 
of the terminal or at least an ion cloud/terminal reaction related to a 
charging effect or phenomenon.  This one fact alone should be noted by 
even the most skeptical of readers.  The coil may never really stop 
sparking, but the main bolts on my system never exceeds 2-3 major 
outbreaks per second!  MAX! (break rate, thus, ring downs = 500+/sec)

The emperical facts are that I have taken a calibrated Keithly 610 
electrometer (DC only- input C= 10pf, input Z= 10 teraohms) connected it 
to a 12" metallic ball (~10pf) and at a range of 10 feet charged the ball 
to a negative DC CHARGE of 3 X 10 ^ -7 coulombs in just 5 seconds from a 
microscopic 15 watt disruptive Tesla coil system!  For the 
math-enthralled, this is a voltage of approx. 7-12KV--DC---!!! This is 
not theory, but emperical, experimental data obtained from calibrated 
instrumentation!  The humidity is a factor, the temperature is a factor. 
 Sparks must issue or an order of magnitude reduction in "charge 
collection rate" is often noticed. this is due to the energy now going to 
hertzian waves (RF) instead of ion waves (DC electric charging of air 

I have used this same ball placed at a range of only 1 foot to collect DC 
and charge a .5uf Maxwell Energy storage capacitor refernced to ground to 
a voltage of 15KV (56 JOULES!!).  The report was like a gun going off!  
This was collected energy from the running 15 watt system mentioned 
above.  I have also used the ball to collect DC power for running a 
number of electrostatic machines which only respond to DC voltages!!  I 
run capacitor motors, Franklin's bell's, Corona motors and electrostatic 
induction motors as well.  This stuff is DC.... period!  In my considered 
opinon, there is absolutely no form of rectification of the RF taking 
place!   We are actually making use of, and maximizing, the air/ion 
losses attendant to normal Tesla coil operation!

I have assembled a lot of this on video for an upcoming report tape #53 
(not ready yet) and have given a formal presentation of this information 
at the Denver New Energy Symposium in April.  I have published papers in 
ESJ (Electric Spacecraft Journal) over the past three years.  I also have 
a more specific article on electrostatic instrumentation due to be 
published in ESJ soon. 

This has been a long post, but represents the promised discussion 
concerning DC and Tesla coils promised a week or two ago.  There is much 
more to this and I will place most of the material on our tapes.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of 
in your philosophy"  (Hamlet)

Richard Hull, TCBOR