Re: TC Electrostatics

Tesla List wrote:
> >From rwall-at-ix-dot-netcom-dot-com Sun Dec  1 22:30:16 1996
> Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:29:05 -0800
> From: Richard Wayne Wall <rwall-at-ix-dot-netcom-dot-com>
> To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> Subject: Re: TC Electrostatics
> You wrote:
> snip
> >>
> >> Bert and Richard ,
> >>
> >>Our work shows that the collecting electrode takes on negative
> >>charge regardless!  An ES voltmeter can't make this determination.
> >>An electrometer can.  Note that we have recorded DC output even from
> >>a non-discharging disruptive system.  This output is of a much lower
> >>level than the discharging system, but there nonetheless!  The
> >>electrometer is a pivotal instrument in quantitative measurements of
> >>such systems.
> >>
> >> Richard Hull, TCBOR
> >
> >Richards,
> >
> >I can understand how a build-up of negative charge might occur based
> >upon the higher mobility of free electrons versus ions. I was _really_
> >stumped about how a positive charge build-up could be occuring! Thanks
> >for the additional clarification. Still certainly a lot of mystery
> >about this phenomenon however...
> >
> >-- Bert --
> >
> 12/1/96
> I recently obtained a 20kV electrostatic VM at a hamfest.  After
> Richard suggested ESVMs measure both DC and AC, I opened up the
> cabinet. Essentially there are two capacitor plates - one fixed and one
> movable. The movable one is attaced to a coiled hair spring and has a
> moving indicator attached.  The mechanism is simplicity itself.
> Oppositely charged plates experience attractive force.  If the fixed
> plate is at ground potential then the movable plate is attracted
> whether it's positively or negatively charged in reference to the
> grounded plate.

This is the very reason that you will never burn out or destroy an ESVM  
It never lies, and always gives a true, time averaged, or integrated 
reading that you can "go to the bank with".  Try using it with a huge 
toroid (on the hot lead) and it can rival some electrometers in 
sensitivity.  Its input impedance is close to infinity!  Richard has 
given a very apt description of the system which is, as he says, 
"simplicity itself".  Every coiler should strive to obtain one of these 
older instruments!  R. Hull

> I tested my ESVM with 1/2 of a 9 kV neon with the center grounded and
> connected to the ESVM.  The high voltage side was coupled to the ESVM
> by an air cap with a gap about 1".  Sure enough the ESVM measured the
> AC high voltage.  Just as Richard predicted.
> I then ran a series of experiments with the same TC set up and 14" x
> 14" Al target.  These are only qualitative at present, but the the
> results are very interesting.  I plan to repeat the attenuation
> experiments.
> I put a bypass cap across the ESVM to ground to get rid of the TC AC
> component.

A tuned wave trap to ground would be a better idea and was what I did 
until I got an electrometer.  Use a very small cap in the trap!
  Richard Hull

     The ESVM charging was slower and not as high, but it still
> charged to several kV.  The ESVM holds a charge after charging is over.
> I measured this charge with a 40 kV probe with both a digital and high
> impedence electronic voltmeter.  Both indicate the charge is positive.
> I measured at various TC voltage inputs, used different caps and
> various distances (R).  Always positive charge.
> I next conducted the same experiment using a 0.02 mF mica cap instead
> of the ESVM.  Same results - positive charge.  Tested several different
> caps and same results.  Switched around leads to the TC primary.  Still
> Positive.
> Here's one everyone can confirm.  Connect the negative lead of a
> digital volt meter to system ground and hold on to the positive lead.
> Fire a small TC at low power at a safe distance.  You are now a
> capacitor plate.  If you have an auto ranging DVM it will tell you if
> you have collected a positive or negative charge.
> Next I put two 12kv PIV 550 mA microwave diodes in series with the
> ESVM. I put two together for approximately 24 kV PIV.  When oriented to
> permit the positive AC component to conduct the ESVM charged very fast
> and high.   When oriented to permit only the negative AC component to
> conduct, the ESVM charged slowly and lower, but it did charge.  When
> four diodes - two back to back to two others - were placed in series
> with the ESVM all AC was blocked.  Charging was very similar to
> bypassing with caps.  The four opposing diodes actually permit passage
> of electrostatic charge but not AC current!  This is amazing.  These
> experiments were repeated with the mica cap with similar results.
> I make the observation that with this particular set up TC
> electrostatic discharge power predominates over EM discharge, since the
> capacitor or ESVM is charged positively (albeit slower and to a lower
> value) when only the negative EM component is conducted and summed with
> the electrostatic component.  Perhaps the TC electrostatic component
> creates the ionized arc channels first and the EM componet then
> conducts in this lowered resistance channel.  This could explain some
> of behavior and questions we have had about theses arc channels.  Isn't
> lightning sometimes also modeled on this observation?

Your finding a positive charging is most interesting and counter to our 
own findings with the Keithley Electrometer!  Gotta' head back out to the 
lab.....  The polarity phenomenon is a most interesting anomoly.  It is 
very inportant to watch out for unseen rectifying schemes in the 
instrumentation which would opt for positive charging.  You seem to have 
worked to elimenate this with the diodes.

You are seeing what we were seeing.  The electrostatic component so 
highly charges the surrounding medium to DC levels that all sorts of 
conduction schemes (arc channels, etc) are possible!  R. Hull

> My experimental data strongly indicates positive charging for my
> system.  This does not invalidate R. Hull's findings of negative
> charging on another system.  There are endless variables in these
> systems.  These TCs emit an explosive scalar wave.  They are also
> scalar translators and these scalar waves are immediately reconverted
> back to EM.  At this point our knowledge is limited and no one knows
> for sure how this is accomplished and what all the variables are.
> Bert you are correct that for a positively charging system, electrons
> are not likely to be the charge vector.  The fan air stream is
> perpendicular to the path from the TC terminal to target.  The idea of
> the fan is to remove any ions or charged particals.  Ozone and ions
> move more slowly, but electrons are accelerated much easier and
> probably won't be affected by the air stream.  However, since the
> target is being charged more positively, electrons should be moving
> from a flat 14" x 14" surface to a point surface (actually a 1 1/2"
> brass ball).  Not likely.  If charging negatively, electrons would be a
> more approriate vector.
> R. Hull does your Keithly electrometer measure both positive and
> negative charges.  Coulombs may have either positive or negative
> charge.


Yes, one of the key items in the electrometer is its incredible 
versatility!!  It measures polarity with either lead or switch changes 
+/-  and uses differential electrometer vacuum tube input amps for 
absolute charge polarity detection and noise reduction.  It measures DC 
volts 1uv to 1KV,  Coulombs 10^-4 to 10^-15, amps 10^-3 to 10^-14, 
resistance 1 ohm to 10^13 ohms.  No multimeter, not even the finest $1000 
instrument, can touch these limits.

 With only a 10pf input capacitance and about a teraohm input resistance, 
the loading on the system under test is virtually quantum in 
nature.  I have to compute and calculate the lead capacitance when in use 
as a coulombmeter to account for a tripling of load capacitance.  A good 
course in metrology is a must for the use of such instruments.  Keithley 
puts out a good book on just such methods which I considered better than 
the course.

Richard Hull, TCBOR