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RE: [TCML] NST Measurements



Maybe the question I really want to ask is - under what conditions will a 15/30 NST deliver 15kV AND 30mA?  Is that even possible?  I would have assumed that with a "proper" load, Vload would be 15kV and would draw 30mA.  Could it be that the open circuit voltage really is supposed to be something much higher but settles down to 15kV under load?  

You mention that "30mA would drop the voltage very low ".  If that's true, then we should never be able to draw anything close to the faceplate-rated power from an NST.  Have you measured this?  Or does the faceplate VA rating reflect just what is being pulled from the wall, with much or most of that being dissipated as I2R losses in the core?

Sorry for all the question marks, but it appears that our understanding of NST's is not as good as we had assumed.

Regards, Gary Lau
MA, USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of bartb
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:06 PM
> To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TCML] NST Measurements
> 
> Hi Gary,
> 
> Linearity of the voltage ratio from 10V to 120V:
> 
> Vin    Vratio
> 10.0   125.00
> 20.1   133.33
> 30.0   137.67
> 40.2   139.05
> 50.1   140.32
> 60.0   139.67
> 70.1   139.37
> 80.0   137.13
> 90.0   137.22
> 100.2  135.23
> 110.3  134.63
> 120.2  136.36
> 
> The voltage ratio is rather linear and it's not that high above 125X.
> However, I realize the leakage of the shunts will affect the voltage
> ratio, so I know the voltage ratio is not accurate (but close). I can
> see that at 10V Vin, I happened to match the NST rating. There was
> enough current in the core without affecting the shunts (or a balance
> that just occurred). However, on another Franceformer of the same model,
> it may be 8V or 12V where this occurs. On an Allison, Transco, or
> whatever, it will likely be very different. That's the problem of
> recommending a procedure.
> 
> In my equations of leakage inductance, self inductances, etc., I used
> the 125X based on NST specs. Everything simulated perfectly at 125X. The
> only issue is how to define the turns ratio in a shunted "unknown" case.
> For NST's, if we know the specs, no problem. MOT's are a different
> story. I would expect the voltage ratio to be much closer to the turns
> ratio than for NST's which are "huge" leakage transformers with power
> factors low in the 40 to 50 range, where MOT's have shunts but are not
> the huge leakage beasts that NST's are.
> 
> Regarding loading, 30mA would drop the voltage very low (not sure how
> low, but low). NST's are designed to provide overly high voltage (a bit
> more than the tube really needs to get started) up until the tube
> conducts, and then the tube load at conduction (volume and gas
> dependent) will provide a load and the NST will sit there at about 1/2
> Voc due to the tube load (their normal application preventing the tube
> from burning out). Smart design but troubling here <grin>.
> 
> The large drop in voltage reduces the power requirements for load
> measurements. It would still take some hefty resistors, but far lower
> than 750W. That number is based on 15kV Voc and does not account for the
> drop in voltage. Loading will dramatically lower that value (thanks to
> the shunts that are causing all the measurement grief in the first
> place) and power requirements would lower dramatically as a result.
> 
> Best regards,
> Bart
> 
> Lau, Gary wrote:
> > Bart wrote:
> >
> >> My measured output at 120.2V input was 16390 which is a voltage ratio of
> >> 136 (not 125 as spec'd).
> >>
> >
> > I wonder what the secondary voltage would measure if it were loaded with a
> 30mA load?  Unfortunately that requires a 500K/750W resistor - not something I
> have in my junkbox.
> >
> > How linear is the 136X forward ratio over the 0-120V input range?  Could a much
> lower wattage 500K load be used at a reduced input voltage to predict the full-
> power loaded voltage?
> >
> > Regards, Gary Lau
> > MA, USA
> >
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