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RE: Wireless power transmission (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:38:31 +0100
From: Colin Dancer <colind@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'Tesla list' <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Wireless power transmission (fwd)

Hi Dave,

I'm sorry if I misunderstood about the large scale electrostatic forces, but
if these aren't present then your scheme does just depend on ions vibrating
(and waves propagating) due to the electrostatic repulsion between the ions.
Such a system would be well described by classis plasma wave theory, with
vibrations/compression waves only being present if the restoring force on a
given ion is sufficiently large to dominate over any damping factors
(interactions with neutral molecules) and randomizing factors (thermal
motion).

As I've already pointed out, I believe the ion density in air, even with a
Tesla coil operating, is many orders of magnitude too low for this to work.
Instead of vibrating in sync, the electrostatic forces between ions are
dominated by the damping of collisions with other particles and random
thermal motion.  The only area where this might not be true is in the arc
itself, but I don't think your scheme is supposed to depend on arcs to
propagate energy.

If you want to use a sound analogy, it's like trying to propagate sound wave
through an almost perfectly evacuated chamber (the low density of air
molecule reflecting the very low ion density).  I think most of us have
seen/heard the experiment with a ringing bell, where you can no longer hear
the bell once the air is removed.  

In fact this is a excellent demonstration of the critical nature of particle
density / force strength to the propagation of sound waves, because even
just a twenty fold reduction in air pressure almost totally stops the
propagation of sound waves.

If you want a more detailed analysis to back up the above description, why
not tell me what density of ions you believe are present in air near a Tesla
coil?  It's then fairly easy to work out the "electrostatic stiffness" of
the media and whether it can support longitudinal sound/plasma waves.

Cheers,

Colin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla@xxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: 19 June 2007 18:21
To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Wireless power transmission (fwd)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:08:58 -0500
From: David Thomson <dwt@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'Tesla list' <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: Wireless power transmission (fwd)

Hi Colin,

> Originally you were talking about longitudinal waves propagated by 
> electrostatic repulsion between charged particles (ions) mechanically 
> vibrating in the free air.

I still am.

> You now seem to be talking about large scale varying electrostatic 
> fields.

No, I'm not.  This is something you have brought intothis discussion, which
I disagree with.

You don't move the air in a room when you talk.  The air remains, for all
intents and purposes, perfectly still.  

It is true an electrostatic field will be damped, even air will damp sound
waves.  But as we can see from longitudinal waves in air, there is quite a
bit of room for sound wave propogation before the damping minimizes the
longitudinal waves in the air molecules.

The same holds for electrostatic longitudinal waves.

The ion density gives the rigidity of the medium, the near field oscillation
provides the source of the mechanical vibration.  With enough rigidity in
the ion field and a strong enough amplitude mechanical oscillation, you can
mechanically excite the ions for a relatively long distance (greater than
inverse square law for EM radiation).  

> It's also the case that to
> generate a large scale varying electrostatic field you'll need to move 
> about large amounts of charge to/from somewhere else.

There is no varying electrostatic field in the sense you are talking about.

Dave