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Re: Tesla Coil Firehazards (Exploding paint cans) (fwd) (fwd) (reverse) (fwd)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:43:58 EDT
From: Davetracer@xxxxxxx
To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Tesla Coil Firehazards (Exploding paint cans) (fwd) (fwd)
    (reverse) (fwd)


Dear Peter,
 
    Nathan has gone ahead and replied to Scott Hanson's  questions about 
power level, strikes, and so forth. You'll find the answers to  your technical 
questions there.
 
    Peter, you are technically correct that the  inside of a paint can may be 
a good Faraday cage. I do wonder about the  seam running vertically; I don't 
think it's built for its electrical  characteristics, though. It's built to 
hold high internal pressure. Perhaps  someone on the list knows if it is crimped 
tightly, glued, or what. (You know,  this is interesting; I just picked up a 
Pepsi can, and I can't feel a seam. Does  anyone know? ) 
 
    However, I don't think Nathan is saying that the  sparks reached down 
into the can via the can's "push-to-spray" button.
 
    Nathan writes that streamers appeared to punch a  hole in the seam of the 
can. My guess would be the can either went rocketing  around, venting from 
that hole, with the venting on fire, which must  have been ... quite 
interesting, or the can ripped and vented all at once, and  if there were streamers to 
ignite the mist, wow, that must have been ... even  more interesting. I note 
that Fuel-Air Explosives yield more bang than C-4 pound  for pound, so...
 
... I bet Nathan has a fire extinguisher. 
 
There's a lesson here: If you're running anything more than a very small  
Tesla Coil, get a fire extinguisher!
 
(And if you have one: How old is it?)
 
    My guess as to why it happened more than once is  that a lot of us run 
Tesla Coils in our garages, basements, or whatever ...  particularly those of us 
who are married, and have such experiments banished  roughly to the same 
place as the dog, the kitty litter, and the bug spray.
 
    Peter, the people on this mailing list have put up  with me, and other 
relative beginners, with patience that is wondrous. Right now  they're helping a 
guy that isn't getting the length of spark that he should.  I've seen the 
same questions come up, over and over, and they get answered, for  the love of 
doing it and passing on the knowledge. There's a (relatively) new  and 
incredibly interesting thing happening, the digitally driven Tesla  Coil. There are 
electrical engineers here who just blow me into the weeds.  But, when I've asked 
questions, I've gotten replies, and some of them are just  so beautifully 
clear it's incredible. I understand many things far better  for being on this list.
 
    Go easy on the accusations, okay? The list tends to  be self-correcting. 
This is a hobby, not a trial.
 
  -- thanks,
 
        Dave
 
 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:32:22  +0800
From: Peter Terren <pterren@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla list  <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Tesla Coil Firehazards (Exploding paint  cans)

I'll call your bluff on this one and say that you made this one  up.
You say you have encountered explosions with paint "most often".
Two  reasons I find it hard to believe you.
A can is almost a full Faraday cage  and it is hard to imagine how a strike 
could give a spark inside a  can.  The contents are probably not flammable 
themselves (hydrocarbon  propellant and paint) until mixed with air.
Striking the outside of a can  results in very little heat transfer. Try 
heating a full coke can and you  will be very disappointed.
So as you started this, please give details of  :
1 Exactly how many explosions you have had?
2 What were your TC details  including power?
3 Was it just streamers that ignited the cans as you say,  not direct sparks?
4 Did the cans have caps on them?
5 Why didn't you stop  having the TC strike the cans after the first flash 
fire?
6  If  no-one on this list can reproduce your findings and we believe that 
you have  lied, what should the group response  be?

Peter
http://tesladownunder.com

> ---------- Forwarded  message ----------
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:15:58 -0700
> From:  Nathan Stokely <50kva.54uf.750a@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla list  <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Tesla Coil Firehazards  (fwd)
>
> Paper and wood are the least of your worries. Any  flammable/explosive
> vapours such as petrol or methane can ignite very  easily from the 
> streamers.
> Also, strikes to aerosol containers  (such as bug spray, spray paint, or
> anything else you have where you  operate your coil) can cause the
> hydrocarbon fuel in the aerosol to  rapidly expand bursting the can and
> causing a flash fire. I have  encountered this with spray paint the most
> often. The can will explode  and then the paint (which burns hot) flies
> everywhere and can catch your  garage on fire. Always stay away from 
> aerosols
> and fuels while  operating a coil.
 
-------------------------------------------
MORE RECENTLY,

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug  2007 17:30:27 -0700
> From: huil888 <huil888@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>  To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Tesla Coil  Firehazards (fwd)
>
> Nathan -
>
> You wrote about the  danger of aerosol containers "bursting" due to strikes
> from Tesla coil  streamers. Further, you noted that you have encountered
> this
>  "most often" with spray maint, implying that you have experienced burst
>  containers multiple times.
>
> Can you provide more details on your  experiences?
>
> 1. What was the input power level of the coil, in  VA?
> 2. What was the streamer length that contacted the cans?
> 3.  Where on the can did the streamer make contact (and I assume melt a
>  hole
> through the steel shell)?
> 4. Were the cans sitting on a  grounded metal shelf, wooden shelf, cement
> floor, etc.
> 5. How  many times have you personally witnessed bursting/flaming cans?
>
>  If pressurized spray pain cans can indeed explode when contacted by  Tesla
> coil streamers, then all coilers who run their coils in their  garages or
> workshops should be made aware of  this  danger.
>
> Regards,
> Scott  Hanson
>
-----------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:58:42  -0700
From: Nathan Stokely <50kva.54uf.750a@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla  list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Tesla Coil Firehazards  (fwd)

The input power level of my coil was 125VA.
The streamer length  was approximately 26 inches.
The streamer made contact on the seam of the can  where the aluminum is
connect when it is rolled into a can. The strike  appeared to break the weld
which holds the can together.
I used to always  keep my spray paint on the concrete floor. Now I keep it in
a wood  cabinet.
I have witnessed this twice in my garage, but I have a friend who  has had
this happen more often.
 



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