Re: Liberating pigs - REALITY CHECK reply

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "Christopher Boden by way of Terry Fritz <twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <chrisboden-at-hotmail-dot-com>

>Original poster: "Ross Overstreet by way of Terry Fritz 
><twftesla-at-uswest-dot-net>" <ross-o-at-mindspring-dot-com>
>
>No one else stepped up on this one so I guess I will...
>
>Taking property that you didn't pay for or don't have written permission to
>salvage is wrong.  It is morally wrong, legally wrong, can send you to 
>jail,
>can cost you thousands of dollars, can get you killed, and most importantly
>CAN DAMAGE OUR HOBBY.  The leaders of the list routinely point out that 
>with
>every death or serious accident our hobby becomes more and more difficult 
>to
>legally practice.  Lets don't add to that threat by having someone get in
>trouble with the law for stealing HV gear for the purpose of building a
>Tesla Coil!
>
>The list has 700+ people and more than a few are terribly impressionable.
>Be careful about what you suggest.  I you insist on being a hoodlum, please
>don't publicize it on our list.
>
>Getting of my soapbox,
>Ross-O



Ross is right. I didn't clarify a couple things that I should have.

1. The abandoned facility is just that. Completely abandoned. It is owned by 
a "Corporation" that consists of a piece of paper and a single person (the 
executor of the bankruptcy estate). The corporation is currently over 
$10,000,000 in unrecoverable debt (mostly back payroll) and the facility is 
scheduled for demolition in the next 6 months.

2. Several members of the Group, including myself, have worked with this 
property for months now (almost a year) at the city level. I have attended 
and spoke at the Dangerous Buildings Committee on behalf of the facility and 
it's hazards to the local neighborhood.

3. The Group has researched the facility more than the city has. We know 
every room on every floor of every building. I have copies of all the 
existing blueprints for the entire facility (there are prints for less than 
10% of it though!). We were the ones who the city called to help seal the 
place from casual entry (keep kids out). We were the ones who got the gas 
turned off (and reported the large gas leak). We were the ones who used our 
own tools, and experiance to go in volunteer and shutdown the power to the 
individual buildings MONTHS before the power company got around to turning 
off the mains (they removed the substation).

The reason we know the property so well is the Group was very intent on the 
purchase of the entire 31acre facility. We offered to assume all the 
responsibility for the environmental issues, and launch a large capital 
campaign to rehab the grounds and structures. We have devoted a lot of time 
to studying the facility and learning about how it can be remodeled. After 
months of work, we basically figure it will be easier to start with a blank 
slate than try and undo years of PCB and otehr contamination. This summer 
the city will spend over $3M on just tearing down all the buildings and 
hauling away the ground they sit on because the B.E.A. (Baseline 
Environmental Analysis) has higher numbers than my Quake scores.

The property is so bad that the fire dept has a standing "Do Not Enter" 
order, if the place burns down, they let it burn.

ANYTING that is worth money has been salvadged out years ago. The only 
things left are junk (LOTS of Junk), things that they didn't find before 
(this is rare, but we have seen a few things that they would never have left 
there), and things that take more work to remove than they are worth (Like a 
beautiful pair of Allis-Chalmers, stationary steam engines, the dozen LARGE 
(250kVA+) Pigs, etc...

I myself, as well as The Geek Group do NOT advocate "Theft". But, in the 
special occurances that you can get a Pig (or other gear) that is FOR SURE 
abandoned, then I see nothing wrong with some creative recycleing. Taking a 
Pig off a pole 2 blocks from you house WILL send you to jail. Takin a Pig 
off a pole in the woods that hasn't had a wire to it in 10 years, when you 
have the permission (whereever possible) of the property owner, etc, is 
perfectly fine. It is up to you to have the brains to make the right choice.

Removing old junk equipment, from an abandoned factory that we have KEYS to 
(they do padlock some of the doors, I have a copy of the keys from the 
person that put the locks there), in an orderly, safe manner is perfectly 
legal. It's a serious pain in the but, but it's legal, ethical, and moral. 
We have kept over 250Gallons of P.C.B.s from leaking into the environment, 
we have kept dozens of young kids from getting into there (where they could 
easily be killed in a hundred ways), and we have recycled a couple tons of 
old HV gear into a new and productive life of educational uses.


Have fun Campers :)


Chris "The Wannabe Hoodlum" Boden
Geek#1 (G-6)

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