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Re: Thyratron pair (was DC Drive)





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:33:47 +0000
From: randy <randy-at-mail.gte-dot-net>
Reply-To: randy-at-gte-dot-net
To: Tesla List <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
Subject: Re: Thyratron pair (was DC Drive) 

> Date:          Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:58:17 -0600 (MDT)
> To:            tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
> Subject:       Re: Thyratron pair (was DC Drive) 
> From:          Tesla List <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>

> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:02:46 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Richard Wayne Wall <rwall-at-ix-dot-netcom-dot-com>
> To: Tesla List <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>
> Subject: Re: Thyratron pair (was DC Drive)
> 
> 10/12/97
> 
> Bert wrote: 
> 
> snip
> 
> >After studying this circuit a bit more, it appears that a this may 
> >alsobe a very good way to use a pair of thyratrons for performing 
> >quenching experiments or for building an electronic disruptive coil. 
> >With this circuit, a conducting thyratron should never see potentially 
> >damaging voltage reversals because of the DC offsets. If we design the 
> >circuit so that Vpeak of the thyratron is greater than 2xVin, and 
> >design it in such a fashion that we ONLY alternately trigger T1 and 
> >T2, the approach should work. By varying the trigger pulse width, 
> >triggering on any notch could be controlled. It may even be possible 
> >to "quench" at any primary current zero crossing. A pair of 4C35's 
> >should be able to handle Vin of up to 4 KV, and a pair of 5C22's, up 
> >to 8 KV.
> 
> snip
> 
> >                       
> >                      T1
> >                Anode   |
> >     -----------------| | <------------  
> >             |          |             |
> >        +    |                        | 
> >           -----                      | 
> >       Vin -----                      |
> >        -    |       Cp               |
> >             |      | |      Lp       | 
> >     ---------------| |----OOOOOOO----- 
> >             |      | |               | 
> >        +    |                        |
> >           -----                      |
> >       Vin -----                      |
> >        -    |                        |
> >             |          |             |
> >     -----------------> | |------------
> >                        |  Anode
> >                      T2
> >                 
> >-- Bert H --
> >
> >
> 
> Excellent post.  This push-pull configuration has some of the aspects 
> of Dave Sharp's new push-pull TC.  As we move away from the confinment 
> of 60 Hz drivers our technology is elevated to a new plane. 
> 
> Since a thyratron is only on full blast after it is triggered, perhaps 
> big, low impedance vacumm tubes (or IGBTs) might give better control 
> than thyratrons.  As such, the primary driving waveform can be better 
> tailored to the requirements of the resonator.  I do not refer to a 
> continous wave vacuum tube driver, but disruptive vacuum tube pulses 
> that have superimposed information content that the secondary resonator 
> requires.  Fast pulse rise time and information content of the pulse 
> are both crucial. 
>  
> The vacuum tube or IGBT is pulsed rapidly with superimposed information 
> content required by the resonator, but for the most part is quiessent. 
> Similar to a spark gap a in on-off time.  There is no coil feed back 
> driving of the vacuum tube, it's totally electronically driven.  BTW, 
> SGs contain these two requirements of fast rise time and much, much 
> more irrelevant information content and energy that is wasted.  If the 
> resonator cannot use parts of the wave content, then it simply ignors 
> them.  The resonator simply chooses what it needs to resonate.
> 
> So, why not determine the requirements of a particular resonator and 
> design our drivers to provide only these requirements?  We may be able 
> to exprimentally provide even better waveform content than that which 
> occurs naturally. 

Although I have yet to build my first coil of any sort, I have been 
pondering this very sort of thing, as I have two 4-1000A pentodes
gathering dust. A  question that popped into my head sort of
line up with your ideas, I think;  drive it with a variable 
width and variable frequency pulse.
Another question on my mind is; since we are theoretically 
"calling the shots" here, so to speak, is there still a need for 
tuned resonance per-se; wouldn''t it be possible to just drive
an autotransformer of more-or less appropriate characteristics
 with this set-up, and vary the drive until
everything at the business end of the beast was "happy"?
Or would a cap be necessary for the "ringing", or would
Cstray be enough if this is the case? Maybe pulse-mode
w/o a L/C combination would work, with a weaker streamer?
Two KW of plate dissipation (the 4-1000A's above)
, at maybe 70% efficiency,
at X% duty-cycle could be substantial, I suppose.

> Think about Dr. R's version of the extra coil where he has eliminated 
> the driver secondary altogether and drives the extra coil from the 
> primary alone.  The reason this works is that there is fast rise time 
> and the the required extra coil wave content is available.

Now that I have added my two-cents worth above, and we
theoretically got away from the spark-gap, allow me to ask
a stupid question in my typical recidivist way:
Could this pulse (would it have to pass thru a doorknob cap?)
then fire a gap in such a way as to dump voltage from a charged cap
to add more oomph, and then be quenched by a negative-going pulse?
I'm relatively sure that some of Silicon Alley's diodes would have
to be put to use here....
> As we become more familiar with these driving techniques, we will 
> eventually be able to elminate the primary/secondary driver altogether 
> and directly drive the resonator electronically.  
> 
> 
> RWW

I have been chomping at the bit to build a coil of SOME sort,
but haven't done so due to the fact that I live in an apartment,
second floor. But now I have remembered Randy's First Rule
of Hamfests : Locate the Coke machine. Useful for testing 
purposes : "yeah, it worked last time I plugged it in..."
Now to find a gas station with a 220 outlet for the compressor
out back of the building......This may be enough to get me off
my duff.... thanks for your thoughts...Sorry for any mindless
ramblings...
Randy Venable